My pasteblog

It looks like I'm the first who'll have a go at this. I'll say right away that I'm not good at this sort of description.
I'll start with bounding. Imagine that you're a kid skipping happily along the sidewalk. Imagine what your push off leg is doing as you skip. That's what your push off leg does during bounding. As the push off leg pushes off, it comes forward and has much more knee lift than it would if you were skipping giving you a running stride with an exaggerated knee lift.
Springing is done with the knee locked and ALL forward motion coming as the result of drive from the ankle. You lean slightly into the hill and will be moving at a pretty slow pace.
If I've mangled this too badly, Nobby or Kim can pick up after me.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=4

Drunkenheyna:

Thank you for your compliment on the video. I made it. In fact, I’m the one who was demonstrating the hill bounding (Arthur used to call me teasingly “the best hill bounder”) though I’m a bit out of shape at the moment. I had to argue with the use of my wife who also demonstrated various exercises because, he said, she doesn’t look line an athlete. I argued that this is the best way to show that even an ordinary runner (she’s a 3:47 marathon runner) can perform these exercises and get benefit. He agreed in the end. Besides, she has a better form (particularly ankle flexion and knee lift) than me.

This is a bit off the original topic so my apology to Snookie; I’d like to spend a bit to explain this hill training because it is a bit confusing and, as Dream machine pointed out, Lydiard really didn’t explain things too clearly. In fact, I think he made it even more confusing at some point.

It wasn’t until very late (perhaps late 80s) that he prescribed 3 distinct exercises for different purposes. There are 3 exercises: (1) steep hill running, (2) hill bounding and (3) hill springing. In most of his clinics (even way back in the 80s), he would talk mainly about bounding and springing (though in the beginning it was more or less “in-between”). Lydiard used hill training in mainly two separate purposes: (1) transition from conditioning to track work and (2) speed development, technique work, strength training (plyometroics). Unfortunately he never, to my knowledge, explained differences well enough to the audience.

We have written a script for the Lydiard training video—it will be a 3-part series (approximately 20-minute each) of explaining sequentially how to apply the entire Lydiard program. I had a difficult time deciding how to explain the hill training phase and in the end decided just touch it rather lightly in these videos; but make a hill training video separately and explain in more detail. What you saw at the last year’s clinic is only a demo tape. We discussed the possibility of selling that video as-is to start the process of immediate fund-raising but I voted against it because, without fully explaining, it could potentially create even more confusion. We would explain how the original hill training, fondly known as “circuit”, was exercised as an entire routine and how Lydiard had evolved into bounding/springing exercises.

Glenn McCarthy, a very good high school coach from Colorado, learnt the original hill training first hand from Lydiard when he was helping Lydiard as an interpreter in Venezuela—that would be steep hill running where you would more or less “run” up the hill with the exaggerated knee lift and “snap” in your ankle. I actually saw the best demonstration in a documentary of Toshihiko Seko in 1983, preparing for the LA Olympic marathon. He was training in NZ and, going up One Tree Hill, he would move slowly (slow forward momentum) and, what I call, “spending extra half a second on your foot at each foot strike”) with good high knee lift. This is what I call “original Lydiard hill exercise” as Ray Puckett, one of the original runners, showed it to me. Now Peter Snell showed it to me slightly different. He emphasized “kicking” or back leg extension a bit more. Either way, the idea is not to run “fast” up the hill, but “hard”.

HRE did a great job explaining bounding/springing “feel” to us but one thing is that the exercise is completely different from actual “skipping” movement. In fact, it is very important you land on the “alternate” foot because that really creates plyometric effect. If I’m not mistaken, Dr. Michael Yessis explained it as a “coil effect” of the Achilles tendon somewhere??? I have noticed that majority of distance runners, I’ve seen this more so in America though nothing derogatory intended, cannot perform this exercise well. They, more often than not, slide into skipping exercise. I’ve tried to introduce skipping exercise as an introduction but, to me, that tend to confuse them even more because they are so much more comfortable with skipping, yet, the goal is not skipping. I found it better to introduce first just simply running uphill; then tell them to lengthen the strides—even place some objects as a target; then gradually lengthen their strides longer and longer until they actually “bound”. As HRE explained, the emphasis is back-leg extension and knee lift. Lydiard always said “like a deer going over the fence.”

Hill springing is more or less the same as bounding except the accent is “higher”. Lydiard said the emphasis is the ankle flexibility—like a ballet dancer. Suppleness and springiness comes from this type of exercise. I would suggest using shorter but more steep hill for this exercise than bounding. At some other thread, somebody started the debate, because I was wearing spike shoes for the video, whether Lydiard “recommends” performing these exercises in spikes or not. The idea is “ankle flexibility”. If you wear spike shoes with minimal heel lift, your heel would come down that much further and be beneficial. Of course, if you do the exercise on the road, you shouldn’t (no, really!) and if you have a hard time striding down the hill with spike shoes, you shouldn’t. Nothing is hard-written on the rock, just understand the purpose of it and apply your best common sense. As with bounding, I would more opt to recommend starting with smaller steps to get the feel for it. Skipping is just fine and you’ll get the idea but eventually you need to master the movement of “jumping up on one leg and landing on the alternate leg” so whichever makes you easy to get there would be fine. I’d say; think of you going up the hill slow-motion (like kids always do); you naturally take a longer (or higher) leap because that way it takes longer till you land (though the speed of gravity will not change!). Forget the knee lift and straight back-leg first; just get the feel for the movement. Then introduce more accurate technique with knee lift, back-leg extension and straight ankle “snap” or “whip”.

The latter two exercises are excellent for speed development. You don’t have to limit the use of these exercises only for a transition; in fact, reportedly, Pekka Vasala did bounding up until a few weeks before the Olympic 1500m in Munich. I would not, however, recommend jumping into these straight after marathon conditioning unless you’d been running lots of hilly courses. These are very demanding—a discount ticket to injuries. My rule of thumb is to start with longer and slower exercise (steep hill running) and gradually move into shorter faster exercise (springing). The shorter and faster your race is (800 or 1500m), the more benefit you’re gain from springing and bounding. Doesn’t mean you don’t get anything from them if you’re a marathon runner; and vice versa.

With the same reason I mentioned above (or simply procrastinating???), I have dragged the idea of adding a clip of hill training video at the website (gotta do some self-promotion so, again, it’s www.fivecircles.org), but I will include what I call a “tease” of about 10 seconds or so just to give the idea in the next month or so, I promise! Please do note, however, this is just one of the exercises and doesn’t mean Lydiard’s original runners were doing it up the 800m up hill 6 days a week!

Here’s another misleading information; what do you do in between. Originally Lydiard recommended leg-speed exercise or some sprint work. Remember, however, when he recommended that, the hill circuit was still quite substantial. They weren’t mucking about; they were doing something like 12 miles just the hill circuit alone. If you do bounding or springing, I would expect the total mileage, which is not as important as many people think, would come down. Bounding and springing would be more or less glorified “speed training” and doing more speed work or sprint exercises on other days may be a bit too much. So depending on how much your legs can handle hill exercise and depending on how much overall running you’d be doing during this period, it may pay to have, for example, a long jog one or two days as well as other sprint work.

DougM:

That is the very topic I’m working on the Part II presentation; “Application of the Lydiard Program”. It can be done and Lydiard has actually laid it out in his earlier publication. Ron Daws also adopted it to American collegiate situation and called it “Combination Program”.

Sorry, guys, I took up the entire thread!
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=5



As has been said many times, coaching is an art. One cannot appreciate a painting by simply reading or listening to the painter explain his work. To appreciate and understand the painting, one must experience the painting itself. The same is true of coaching. While books, lectures, and conversations may help us to understand a coach's methodology, they can never give us a complete appreciation for the coach and his work. So unless someone has been personally coached by both Arthur Lydiard and Dr. Daniels, it seems unfair to ask who we would prefer as our coach. It's like asking which painter's work we prefer when we have not personally seen and experienced the paintings of each painter.

However, a more practical question that we may be able to answer is not who would we rather coach us, but whose published training structure do we find more effective when applied properly? Perhaps the best way to answer this is to compare each structure phase by phase. I realize this comparision is flawed from the start in two ways. First it is based on my own intpretation of both coach's published structures - however I'll do my best to present and compare each. Secondly, to make the comparision fair, I will use DRF's 24 Week Program and a similar 24 Week interpretation of Lydiard's works. I'm sure I have overgeneralized and misinterpreted so I encourage criticism and or corrections.

Base Phase (DRF Phase I "FQ" vs. Lydiard Aerobic Conditioning)
DRF prescribes a 6 Week Foundational Quality phase of "Easy Pace" Running with the inclusion of strides. Every three week the athlete is permitted in increase mileage as much as one mile for every workout session per week. Within the 24 Week time frame, I would assume Lydiard would prescribe a 12 Week Aerobic Conditioning phase of Aerobic Paced running with the inclusion of strides. Emphasis is placed on single session aerobic paced running with an option for a second daily session of easy jogging. To oversimply, the major difference appears to be DRF 6 Week Aerobic Base vs. Lydiard's 12 week Aerobic Base. It should be noted also that Dr. Daniels seems to suggest a longer Phase I if there is time.

Transitional Phase (DRF Phase II "EQ" vs. Lydiard's Hill Spring Phase)
DRF presribes a second 6 week Early Quality Phase with primary emphasis on "Repetions" of 200-800m with full recovery to develop economy and prepare for the stresses of Phase III, and secondary and maintence emphasis is placed on Anaerobic Threshold (T-Pace) and Vo2Max Intervals (I-Pace). Again within this 24 week time frame, Lydiard's Hill Springing Phase would last 3 Weeks with primary emphasis on Uphill Sprining, Downhill Running, and Wind-Sprints to develop economy and prepare for the stresses of the Anaerobic Phase. Both Daniels and Lydiard stress the importance of this transition to the next phase. The question boils down to which is a more effective transition Repeats or Hill Circuits.

Specialization Phase (DRF Phase III "Q" vs. Lydiard's Anaerobic Phase)
DRF prescribes a third 6 week Quality Phase with primary emphasis on Vo2Max Intervals (I-Pace) of approximately 600-1200m with recovery jogs of equal or slightly less duration, secondary and maintenance emphasis is placed on T-Pace Runs and Repetitions. Lydiard prescribes a 4 week Anaerobic phase with 3 workouts a week of 400-1600 intervals with recovery jogging of equal distance. DRF Interval workouts and Lydiard's Anaerobic workouts seem to be very similar, down to the recovery jogging between intervals. The differences appear to be DRF's single interval workout a week, with a different focus for the secondary and maintence workout compared with Lydiard's 3 anaerobic workouts a week. To a lesser degree the difference between DRF recovery jogs of equal duration vs. Lydiard's recovery jogs of equal distance is also a consideration.

Race Conditioning (DRF Phase IV FQ vs. Lydiard's RaceCoordination Phase)
DRF prescribes a final 6 Week Tapering Phase with primary emphasis on T-Pace runs to allow recovery for important late season races, secondary and maintence emphasis is placed on Intervals and Reps with reduced volume. Within the confines of the 24 Week plan, I assume Lydiard would use a 3 Week Race Coordination phase with primary emphasis on Time Trial Races and a single sharpening workout of 50m-100m Sprint/50m-100m Float once a week. The difference seems to be that DRF allows for recovery with lower intensity T-Pace Runs while Lydiard "sharpens" using short bouts of high intensity pick-ups. DRF completes the 24 Week plan with this phase with a peak race at the end of the final 6 week phase.

Lydiard Peaking Phase
Lydiard finally prescribes approximately 10-14 days of final freshening up before the peak race. Unlike the prior phase, the peaking phase focuses on a single peak race, rather than time trials, and the sharpening workouts are reduces in volume rather than intensity.

So when we weight the two structures which would you prefer? To be honest I incorporate degrees of both structures in my training as that is what works best for me.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=12



Non race week
Mon 3x1500 or 6x800 plus warmup and cooldown
Tue 90 minute aerobic run
Wed 5k tempo time trial plus warmup and cooldown
Thu 60-90 minute aerobic run
Fri 30-60 minute aerobic run plus 6-10x100 strides
Sat 5k tempo/time trial plus warmup and cooldown
Sun 90-120 minute aerobic run
Race week
Mon 30-60 minute aerobic run plus 6-10x100 sprints
Tue Easy Fartlek run of 45-60 minutes
Wed 1500 time trial plus warmup and cooldown
Thu 40-60 minute aerobic run plus 4-6x100 sprints
Fri 30-40 minute aerobic run
Sat race 3k- half marathon
Sun 90-120 aerobic run
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=16



I try to get runners up to the mileage amount they will keep for the season, by the time they start doing the more quality training sessions; don't want to drop or increase any mileage at this point. Toward the end of the season, a drop in mileage depends on how much mileage is being done. If not doing more than 40 or 50 miles a week, may not need to drop any, but if doing high mileage some drop in both total mileage and faster quality is desirable
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=26

Hardening the steel before sharpening the edge, simple but descriptive analogy.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=29

The correct way to express VO2 is to have a dot over the V, which means the Volume (for which the "V" stands) is a 1-minute volume of oxygen, rather than just a volume of oxygen. For instance if you measure an amount of oxygen that someone consumes over a period of 2 minutes, and that volume is 8000ml, then the VO2 is 8000ml, but the VdotO2 is 4000ml (volume per minute). When we did all our original computer calculations (using that old fortran style of programming) we gave VdotO2 the term "VDOT" rather than referring to it as "VDOTO2." So VDOT refers to a 1-minute oxygen consumption (expressed in ml per kg body weight per minute). Now and then I check to see if I should be involving myself in this neat discussion. Carry on.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=29

What you do today is not necessarily the reflection of what you CAN do; but rather what affects your actual performace tomorrow.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=32

I second Glenn. You seem to know what you need so you should simply coordiante your training accordingly. Don't just follow a schedule, any schedule, blindly. If you know what you need, simply include that. There was a period when i know I needed more hill exercise. I included one day of hill training throughout the marathon conditioning phase. Why not?

Now I don't know how long it takes for your LT system to deteriorate but I feel the question is rather "how long does it take to develop LT system to fullest?" If it takes 10 weeks (I don't know), then you start developing it 10 weeks before your important competition. Or else, why do you have to do that throughout the year unless you want to race year-round? Is it a bad thing that your LT is "not touched" for a certain period of time? If it is, by all mean, include that year-round. With those things, everybody's different. I'm sure Lydiard would not object if the athlete go crazy if they don't ANY intervals at all for more than 3 months to include some intervals every 2 months. Regardless of what's (supposedly) best physiological theory, the idea is certainly not to go crazy. The idea is to develop you as an athlete in a holistic way. Why 4 weeks of anaerobic development phast when you come just right after 3 weeks and tend to go downhill after that? Or if you just can't get it right even after 5 weeks. It it takes longer than 6 weeks, by all mean, you need to structure your schedule accordingly.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=33

Thanks for your clarification. I would, and I think Glenn would agree with this, tend to follow what Lydiard used to prescribe for "repetitions": Run one fast, jog one; repeat till you hit the wall.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=37

Lactate tolerance
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=38

Think about how Arthur Lydiard peaked his runners. He built a strong aerobic base, introduced easy forms of faster work but gave them plenty of jogging recovery between reps, did some explosive stuff with hills, did some quantity "anaerobic" intervals, then got away from them. He then scheduled surge training and time trials. Time trials, Arthur said, revealed what needed to be done. In some cases, it could mean more anaerobicically natured training, but typically he would do it with more fast time trials over distances like 1500m, 800m, or 300m or surge training sessions such as 50 sprint, 50 jog, 100 sprint, 100 jog. It could mean easing off the time trials and surge training if stamina appeared to not be up to par. Thus, some long runs and easy distance runs were quickly included back in the training schedules to balance out a runner's fitness. For a runner who was low on stamina, NO extended reps which were anaerobically natured would be included, but some short quick stuff that didn't build acidosis could be included.

From my perspective Arthur was saying, "Let's get you into good shape so that 4-6 weeks before the important race we can fine-tune your training to meet your individual needs at that time. If you need anaeorbic work, I'll give it to you, but in time trial or surge training form because "I know it won't wipe you out like lots of fast 400s will. Or, I can give you 5k and 10k time trials (about 5% slower than all-out) to enhance your stamina. Or, I can give you some longer runs to give you back to aerobic endurance. I can give you some sprints with full recovery if you have good stamina and anaerobic conditioning if you lack explosive ability."
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=38

In terms of Lydiard's basic speed; that's what he used to determied best suited racing distance for the athlete. The reason why not 100 is because the reaction time (start) plays too big of a part; in 400 endurance already comes in.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=41

Lactate production doesn't shut down but continues to rise until it peaks out when do fairly frequent intense sprints, then it (lacate) starts to drop as speed decreases (due to fatigue). Thus, it would appear that buffering is stronger at this point and production is not as high, but this is false because it is the speed that has declined and with it quantities of lactate. Lactate is directly related to carbohydrate burning and hence quantitatively linked to intensity. If speed drops, so does lactate.

I can give an example of this at the other end of the spectrum. I can tell a runner to go for a long run and I will measure your lactates every 3 miles. Over time lactate values will drop gradually. The assumption, which is incorrect, is the buffering of lactate is improving. Truth is, either speed slowed down as one travels many miles, which effects lactate production - i.e. quantity - or there was a shift in fuel (substrate) utilization. If you burn more fat to generate ATP, you use fewer carbs. If you use fewer carbs (glycogen or glucose) you produce less lactate.

A runner can never sprint-float sprint 2 miles on the track and achieve the same time as running at a steady, fast pace. Why? Sprinting and floating in alternation produces far more fatigue due to very high muscular and blood acidosis.

I think the over-riding benefit of surge training (sprint-float-sprints) is multi-faceted: neuromuscular, biochemical, and mental. Changes of paces improves neural control and firing. Changes of paces requires concentration. Surge training for 2 miles on the track is very, very hard to do and it toughens one's mentally. Additionally, physically, it recruits fast twitch fibers and thus demands anaerobic contribution at a high level of output per unit time. It is a very strong stimulus, but if not tempered with overdistance running, plenty of post-speed training cool down running, morning jogs, it can flatten you in a hurry.

One must really know how to coordinate training elements in order to do it well (like Lydiard). One must have plenty of aerobic conditioning in the "bank" to do it well and benefit from it. It also is a strong aerobic stimulus for fast oxidative fibers (fast twitch A fibers) and fast glycoltic (explosive)(fast twitch B) fibers. Through frequent use, fast twitch B fibers can alter their constitution such that they process oxygen to create ATP energy, not just process pyruvate to generate ATP anaerobically. If one doesn't have many of these fibers, their isn't going to be a big improvement with this type of workout as far as biochemical processing of energy is concerned. Thus, if one is a "slow twitch" runner (little natural speed), then an even shorter workout of surge training should be planned. A long surge training session is not advisable for a slow twitch runner, in my opinion. It will work magic for middle distance runners with great natural speed, I have noticed. Tinman
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=45

You start running out and back course; trying to keep the effort and speed even. Go out for 15 mintues first and turn around and come back. If it takes longer than 15 minutes coming back; you'll know you've started out too fast. Once you can handle 30 minutes or so easily, gradually start increasing the time spent running; then alternate the length; make sure you go long and go back to shorter run the next day for recovery... Forget 6 months or 3 months or 9 weeks or whatever. Keep working on this till you can run "comfortably" for 90 minutes to 2 hours. As far as I'm concerned, running 35 miles a week don't really mean much--it could be 5 miles every day; or it coule be 15 miles on weekend and 3-milers on other days. You might be better off with the latter because you're working on muscular endurance.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=46#1097195

A few pages back someone asked for the Lydiard system boiled down to its basics. This is probably as useless as trying to become a gourmet chef in three easy steps. I'll put down my summary anyway and others tell me what we're missing.

1. Train in such a way that you enjoy what you do and reach your best on the most important day(s). Always look at the big picture.

2. Have a plan but be ready to change it as necessary; don’t overdo it (or underdo it) just because the schedule calls for a certain workout at a certain pace. You know yourself better than any “expert” does.

3. Easy aerobic running is good for you and it’s hard to do too much. Running that produces an “oxygen debt”, even in small amounts, creates much larger stresses. Aerobic capacity is the single most important factor you can develop, but far from the only one.

4. Work on your speed every week of the year, which does not necessarily mean running top-speed sprints. You can also use hill running, plyometrics, drills, etc.

5. Running is the best training for runners. Hill training and plyometrics are the most effective ways to build leg strength and range of motion.

6. In the base phase, run a lot, keep it aerobic, and from day to day vary your distance, speed, terrain and surface.

7. Use the hill phase as a bridge from base training to track training, and use it to develop strength, speed, power, power endurance and technique but avoid building up “oxygen debts” as you do with track training.

8. Use track training to develop your anaerobic system, but you do not even have to run as fast as race pace.

9. Coordination training, time trials, and sprint/float sharpeners are useful tools which most training programs ignore.

10. You cannot simultaneously train hard and race well. You must always sacrifice one for the other.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=47

HRE
Remember that Arthur said that you should work on your speed throughout the year. He was against doing anaerobic work too soon. But he never considered a session of 100s, done with sufficient recovery, an anaerobic workout. I've always seen him prescribe the 100s as "fast, relaxed, striding." That's a bit different than the 50 meter things which were done as sprints or sharpeners.
Kim Stevenson
Agreed Rich, Year round I have my athletes run 6 to 10 X 100 "easy, fast, relaxed strides" every Monday and Friday as part of the 45 mins to an Hour run (depends on time of year.
For those who wonder " How fast ?". Tinman gives a good indicator, Use your 5 k pace.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=52

I used to jog down about 2.5 miles to this residential area where there aren’t too many cars. I’d run down this stretch fast, jog back… It took me, I can’t remember exactly, but let’s say it was about 1:50 or so. I’d time the first one and try to make sure my last one is very close to that time. If the time is slipping, red flag! Even if the time is the same, if I knew I’m pushing extra, red flag!! So, yeah, I timed myself but in this case, I had NO idea how fast I was running; in other words, I had NO idea what “pace” I was running. Later on, I checked the distance to find out roughly how far (it was something like 520m or something). It’s not even accurate still. Now on the second week or second session, I’d change the venue (I had another circuit like 1100m loop) and did it 4 or 5 times. Yes, I timed them but again the distance was never quite known; therefore, I had NO idea what “pace” I was running at. What’s more, now because I changed the venue, I can’t even be competitive with myself from the session earlier. If I knew I was doing around 1:50 the session ago, I’d be sure to try to beat that time!
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=70

Sprint:
50/50, sprint drills, some hills, sprint time trial

Anaerobic capacity:
50/50. 100/100, repetitions, time trials (middle distances), some hills

Aerobic capacity:
Time trials (long distances), 1/2 & 3/4 aerobic runs

Tempo:
Time trials (long distances), 3/4 aerobic runs

Aerobic conditioning:
1/4, 1/2 & 3/4 aerobic runs

Jog:
1/4 aerobic runs, warm-up & cool-down, supplementary runs

Plyometrics:
Hill training

Weight training:
Hill training

Stretching:
Hill training
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=72

I should also add:

Coordination of aerobic and anaerobic:
Time trials (race distance)

Tactic practice:
Time trials (race distance)

Speed endurance:
Longer repetitions, time trials (middle distance), some hills

Learn to run at correct pace:
Pace judgement runs, time trials (race distance)

Learn to run by "feel":
1/4, 1/2 & 3/4 effort runs
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=73

Relationship between stride length and stride frequency is,
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=75

Peaking: 73 words: Multipacing year round. Each zone is addressed in different ways depending upon the time of year. Aerobic conditioners are 30min jogs when you start, and 2hr strong aerobic at peak volume. Anaerobic conditioners are marathon pace when you start, and faster than half marathon pace later. Aerobic capacity is tempoish when you start, and 3k race pace later. 6x1000m at 15k pace in Oct and 3x1000m at 3k pace in june. Anaerobic capacitors gradually build from something like 15x200m at 3k pace in October to 4x400m at 800m pace in june. The general level of intensity increases right up to peak. The general level of volume peaks a few weeks away from the biggest race, then decay curves towards the race. There!
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=76

M - 30:00
Tu - 90:00
W - off
Th - 90:00
F - 30:00
Sa- off
Su- 120:00

or

m - 30:00
tu - 45:00
w - 90:00
th - 30:00
f - 45:00
Sa - off
Su - 120:00

why one is better?
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=79

at that time I was concerned that I might be running too many tough hills everyday. he kind of laughed at that idea and told me to keep running the hills and dont worry about getting hurt or burned out on the hills.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=80

Lydiard "evolved" into recommending 3 different exercises using hills; (1) steep hill running to mainly strengthen knee lift, (2) hill bounding to emphasize back leg extention and (3) hill springing to strengthen ankle flexibility. Depending on the event you're training for as well as your own strengths and weaknesses, you should pick one or mix these exercises. For (1) and (3), you should not skip steps and use every step because the forward momentum will be slow and each step would be short. For (2) you should "reach out" like, as Arthur always said, "a deer going over the fence"; so you should skip 2 or 3 steps. Bear in mind, this (hill bounding) can be quite highly anaerobically demanding.

The length of the circuit and the duration of the workout is irrelevant; you should always do as much as you think you can manage without damaging the next day's workout and progress gradually.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=80

Bear in mind, he never "tested" his athletes so how did he know? Well, if he gave more than that, his athletes went flat. Now, bear in mind also that this is the runner(s) who ran 10 weeks of 100MPW plus 4 to 6 weeks of hill training (6 days a week); in other words, very very tough runners. They would do anaerobic type repetitions 3 days a week. He claims East Germans said 5 week (instead of his green-finger 4 weeks). What he meant actually is not to do more anaerobic training necessarily; but they would take longer recovery days in between so they might do twice a week instead of three; hense, taking longer to develop it fully. He always prefered doing anaerobic training less than more. If it's not fully developed, fine. All the races that would follow would further develop it so just let it be. That was his "green-finger" approach.

For each workout; I think Kim put it beautifully. As a coach, yeah, I timed my athletes. I even timed myself (ah, those were the days...). Of course, I was doing the reps over a strech of about 520m (measured by my "walking"); the only thing I checked with my timing them was; is it vividly slowing even when I was putting more effort? Same thing. You're timing your athletes with, say, 400ms. Let's just say, for the argument sake, 72 seconds. Then it goes, 72, 73, 71, 74 even, that's okay; back to 72 for the next one... Then all of a sudden, you'll know it; he would be struggling at the backstretch, head rolling, teeth gritting, arms start to swing all over the place... Yet the time comes out as, say, 76. Stop him. He's not straining, not training. It could be in his 10th 400. Could be 16th. May not happen till the 24th one. You, as a coach, may have written down 20X400m. But should you stop him? Absolutely. With this type of "anaerobic training" as described by Arthur, you would want to "lower your blood pH level down throughout your body" to affect overall chemistry. If you do them too fast in the beginning; or take too short of recovery that you may end the workout prematurely, then you may only affecting the blood pH level of the working muscle. Arthur used to use the exmample of, say, push-up or chin-up. Your arms get tired and you'll have to stop the workout. It's not because YOU are tired; but your arms are tired. Same thing. If you sprint flat-out; your legs get tired and you'll have to stop the workout.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=88

Seasonal anaerobic development? First, it depends upon some key factors. Foremost, it depends upon the individual. What works for Jo man not work for Sam. Jo may have a high percentage of fast twitch (type 2) fibers and therefore could handle far more "anaerobic" work than Sam. It really comes down to the percentages of fast twitch fibers you have inherited from you parents, especially your mother.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=89

You have a limited supply of glycogen and glucose in your body available to run. At marathon pace you normally burn some fatty acids too, as fuel. There is a desirable balance between the two.

If you train improperly, using plenty of fast reps, your body learns to burn sugars, glycogen and glucose, faster. As a result, when you run a marathon race you burn your sugars too fast and you run out of power before you reach the finish line.

Once you have drained your sugars too low, your body says "Hey there, I got keep a little bit around to run my nervous system - which only uses sugars - so I'll slow you down, buddy, and make you use fats as a fuel source." ATP production from burning fats is lower in amount per unit time. Thus, power output drops and you slow way down in the last few miles of the marathon.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=90

I don't recommend 8% downhill, but we were doing some research on different grades and we went down to 10% at one point. Work at it gradually (-2 or -3 % at first) and downhill could actually be a great training tool. The benefits of eccentric contractions do a great job of building muscles, but there is always a danger of too much impact -- on a grass downhill would be better than a TM (I assume).
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=91

jtupper:
I tend to treat men and women the same -- with the exception that I try to think more in terms of time than distances
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=92

I was surpised to see the 7:00 comment as well. I'm in the hill phase now of marathon training. In Running to the Top (p.106) Lydiard states: "Once the conditioning period is over, for to six week can be used to concentrate on hill type training to add resistance to the leg muscles and develop muscle fibres, particularly quick twitch.Two or three workouts a week of from 15 to 60 mins., depending on hhow you feel, are enough. Underdoiong it is better than overdoing it. The othr days should see you on steady running, striding or easy fartlek according to hou your legs feel. Try relaxed downhill striding on descents that are not too steep."
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=964958&page=95


Kim Sevenson
I'm glad this thread hase returned to what the original discusson is about.
To concur with HRE and to take further some of what Arty has found.
Arthur did do a lot of "Race Prep" work and his famous 1 to 2 miles of 50yd dashes was the one of, if not the toughest workouts he prescribed.
As a youngster I heard all sorts of times bandied around about what peole did in these workouts but the one I do know is John Walker. He regularly ran 8:40's in this.
If that is not race effort work then what is !!!!.
But it is easy to talk about the great ones.
I have an old friend who trained with Arthur and was beginning to look really good. He was not quick but as very strong.
He had a session of the 50yd dashes to do and Arthur came down to check on how he was doing them. After a few laps Arthur made him shut down and told him (In typical Arthur fsshion) that what he was doing was "crap". He had to SPRINT those 50's and RUN not jog the 50's between.
Fred finished the workout literally on his knees.
A few weeks later he went out and ran 48:10 for 10 miles behind Jeff Julian (47:38. Fred said he could never have run that 10 miles so well if he did not have sessions like that behind him.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&thread=964958&id=2354211#2354211