Opera Desktop Team

Kestrel: The Road Ahead

,

Howdy! This is my first post here, so let me introduce myself: my name is Tim Altman and I work for Opera Software in the Desktop QA department. My main focus is Opera Mail, though I also help out the Mac and Core teams as needed. I'm the only member of the Desktop Team living in the United States, where I work from my home.

Now, let's get down to business. We wanted to give y'all an update about Kestrel. Back in June, we announced that the first weekly would be "within a few weeks". It's become painfully obvious that we underestimated the amount of time it would take for us to deliver a preview of Kestrel to the public. When we release a build with as many changes as Kestrel, we want to make sure that our users are able to use the build as much as possible, so we can get the best feedback possible. We have strict quality standards that have not yet been met. Back in June, we thought it would only take us a few weeks to reach the required quality. However, as we developed and tested more, we continued to find serious issues that we could not in good conscience inflict upon our users.

When can you expect to see the preview of Kestrel? It's hard to tell. It depends on whether we find new problems, and if we do, how serious they are. I know a lot of you are anxious to test out the things we've been developing for the past year and we're anxious to hear your feedback. All of us will have to be patient to ensure that y'all get a reasonably solid build to make this whole process worthwhile.

We have a long road ahead of us. Initial builds of Kestrel will not be able to replace 9.23. There are still many, many problems that need to be fixed. For instance, Kestrel is nowhere near as stable as 9.23 and Opera Mail is not ready for production use. After the first build, releases should come often, though not necessarily every week nor always on Fridays. We will try to resolve as many problems as we can with each release, but all bugs reported one week will not be fixed by the following week.

What's a Kestrel post without information about new features? Since I work mostly with Opera Mail, I'll give a couple hints about what we've been up to. Many users have requested the ability to manually update newsfeeds even if they aren't due for an update. OK, done! If you are in the main newsfeeds access point, pressing F5 will update all newsfeeds. We've also resolved the issue where the View > Encoding menu didn't do anything for messages. That's all that I'll reveal this time around....

Thank you for your interest in the future of Opera! Stay tuned for more news.

9.23 releasedHappy birthday Jon

Comments

KujaIXKuja-IX Sunday, August 26, 2007 12:07:33 AM

We will waiting for the best browser ^^

Good work to you guys, and good luck smile

Martin EvansGuyver Sunday, August 26, 2007 12:08:08 AM

Well i spose its back to the waiting line again sad

Ahhh well atleast its getting there i spose....

Gotta admit more delays are making me wonder if its going to be worth the wait....

Saddle Magic Sunday, August 26, 2007 12:14:00 AM

Thank you, Tim. It is much better to hear something as opposed to nothing.

AyushAyushJ Sunday, August 26, 2007 12:37:15 AM

Thanks Tim for info up and congrats on your first post party

wait ...

Andresandresruiz Sunday, August 26, 2007 12:46:34 AM

Ok, thanks Mr Tim Altman

Nice to have news about 9.5 in a saturday night, am really sorry about the lots of problems you have with Kestrel, and I hope you can solve them soon.
By now I'm very happy with merlin.

Talking about mail...will be possible to "ask" for automatic delivery and read confirmations with Opera? Like in MS Outlook?

Nice saturday night and weekend.

Ryan Octavianusphilry4n Sunday, August 26, 2007 1:04:36 AM

Yay for the newsfeed update

Raistlin Sunday, August 26, 2007 1:07:30 AM

Have you wrote HTML editor for Opera mail, like in MS Outlook or even Gmail WebMail?

viniciuscubone Sunday, August 26, 2007 1:08:18 AM

About mail, will there be HTML support on Opera 9.5? I think this could be quite simple to implement, but very important to users.

Tim AltmanJunyor Sunday, August 26, 2007 1:14:41 AM

As Arjan (the lead Opera Mail developer) said in his interview with Daniel Goldman (http://operawatch.com/news/2007/07/interview-with-lead-developer-of-the-opera-mail-client-m2.html), we've been experimenting with rich text e-mail, but it won't be ready for Kestrel. Have a look at the interview for some more details about the future of Opera Mail.

Boozoy Sunday, August 26, 2007 1:17:05 AM

Please add read confirmations and a HTML editor to compose HTML mail + edit HTML code like MS Outlook Express. I don't want to use Thunderbird or Outlook Express.

Andrew NguyenSouthernCross Sunday, August 26, 2007 1:32:58 AM

up Keep it up guys.

kriko Sunday, August 26, 2007 1:39:33 AM

Thank you for an update, and good luck with development. I hope in the end you will bring us a more stable kestrel weekly to play around with and report bugs.

Mathias Brodalamathbr Sunday, August 26, 2007 1:45:03 AM

Hm, what’s the "main newsfeeds access point"? I access feeds using its menu but I don’t think that pressing F5 will have an effect on that.

AyushAyushJ Sunday, August 26, 2007 1:58:53 AM

@mathbr- The Mail panel (you have to create a mail or newsgroup account to enable it)

Tim AltmanJunyor Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:32:17 AM

@mathbr: You can access it by going to the Feeds menu and choosing Read feeds.

@Boozoy and andresruiz: We have no plans to add read confirmation to Opera Mail and I don't see that changing.

DD32 Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:48:45 AM

Great work, Cant wait to see the previews smile

Feature Request for Opera Mail though:
I'm on a fair few Mailing lists, And have about 5 email addresses, It'd be great if Opera was to auto-detect(Or just be able to manually set) the email address to use for the replies.
At present if you hit reply (in 9.23) to a mailing list entry, it defaults to using whatever account you last used.
I prefer to keep a public email address for mailing lists(As it generates a lot of spam to that addresS), and a PRivate email for other things.

D

Tim AltmanJunyor Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:59:14 AM

The proper place for feature requests is the Desktop wish-list (http://my.opera.com/community/forums/forum.dml?id=24). Thank you.

Anders Sunday, August 26, 2007 3:00:22 AM

What about people that use 3rd party RSS readers, I hope you have better support for this, currently, its not very easy to setup, since you need to set-up handlers for rss:// and all the different MIME xml types. And for MIME types you have forgotten about, you just get the raw xml (I don't use opera's mail client at all) FireFox handles this very well

skye11 Sunday, August 26, 2007 3:08:58 AM

Considering how long it’s taking to release Kestrel, perhaps it's a sign that we may expect many new features and considerable improvements (performance, site-rendering, stability) and hopefully at least these too:

- Mail (I may actually start using it then)
- Sessions mgmt (saving desired windows only)

Hope Kestrel will be great, and help boost Opera’s user base with many new users.

Keep up that great work!

edupav Sunday, August 26, 2007 3:34:45 AM

Thanks a lot for keeping informed us,is great have notice of the develpe of kestrel, now we stay more pacience and not to anxious for the furture release wink, keep doing a great work!!!

Jake Tolbertcrazybilly Sunday, August 26, 2007 3:40:01 AM

Oh, dang. Just when the feature I've been jonseing for ever since I started using RSS comes out, I'm stuck using an online reader so I can keep my feed reading straight at home and at work.

Sounds great to me--ya'll keep up the good work. I'm excited for Kestral.

WildEnte Sunday, August 26, 2007 3:49:06 AM

if only the feeds main view were accessible from the mail panel and not only from the menu... and if only the "check/send" button would include an item "update feeds" ... then I wouldn't have to turn the menu bar on to update my feeds.

Tamil Sunday, August 26, 2007 3:56:19 AM

Thanks. wait

DandsDandS Sunday, August 26, 2007 3:56:30 AM

Refreshing the feeds sounds very good to me!

And I'd like to say again:

Give us a new skin with Kestrel!!!!

Gofo Sunday, August 26, 2007 4:12:00 AM

- Sessions management (saving desired windows only)

+1

serious Sunday, August 26, 2007 6:14:48 AM

somehow three separated topics:

1) You'll do it! *waiting anxiously*

2) The "main newsfeed access point" as you call it should be accessable through the panel somehow (or have I missed something?) as I only use the panel for mail/feeds and never the menu.

3) about QA: hey, it's a weekly. that's not even considered to be beta/alpha. still it's nice to see how much attention comes to QA at opera. since I use the betas/weeklies there was no only one build I can remember that crashed (at least when I wasn't testing out stuff on some bug farms), in contrary to some apps that call themselves "final". yes cheers at opera yes

joshas Sunday, August 26, 2007 6:50:42 AM

I sure hope that the feed reader will be improved in the new release.

Ice ArdorIceArdor Sunday, August 26, 2007 7:02:08 AM

Thanks Tim. I'm sure Kestrel will be worth every day of the wait. I know you guys want to release it just as much as we want it. I'm glad you guys care about software integrity. Safari was a total flop, and I'm glad you guys take the title "beta" seriously--something usable that can get feedback that isn't frustration.

You guys all deserve a vacation when Kestrel is final.

FrakkiaLP Sunday, August 26, 2007 8:02:37 AM

Thanks. Good work. I agree with you. Take all the time that's necessary to take us an excellent built. wink

Fraser PearceFraZor Sunday, August 26, 2007 8:28:52 AM

Socks Proxy Support... pretty pretty please! bigsmile

Kyle Bakerkyleabaker Sunday, August 26, 2007 8:34:02 AM

Thanks for the update Junyor. It's good to read a straight forward post every now and then. Can't wait to hear more details! Maybe your second post will be the luckiest one (9.5, at least until 10 wink). Good job of filling us in and take all the time you need to perfect the new build and opera mail. I must confess that I only use opera mail on my laptop which I hardly ever use, but not on the desktop machine that I use daily just because I've had too many troubles with it. It will be warmly welcomed into my daily routine when 9.5+ is released. bigsmile Hope we get more details and hints soon!

FavDjiXas Sunday, August 26, 2007 10:16:41 AM

Wohoo, news. Thank You!

Everyone stop complaining about "waiting. You are not a young boys or girls to understand why YOU HAVE to wait.

Madiseestlane Sunday, August 26, 2007 10:19:12 AM

Wasn't there such Newsfeeds feature already.
LOL, what have I been doing then... no it's even working:
Clicking on sidepanel on Newsfeeds and clicking F5 updates the newsfeeds... or doesn't it... I'm confused, maybe it doesn't indeed.

illiad Sunday, August 26, 2007 10:24:36 AM

yes, DjiXas...bigsmile

and please kids... saying "are we there yet?" all the time just makes it more difficult!! up

Martin RauscherHades32 Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:09:37 AM

Thanks for the status update!
Very sad that you couldn't give us a timeframe, but as I developer I understand this.

And despite its alpha quality it will sure have when it arrives, I will anyway use Kestrel as my main browser! bigsmile

BTW: We haven't heard anything of the censored feature http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog/kestrel-is-coming
Any new infos on this?

lamarca lamarca Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:26:24 AM

well....its not the exactly kind of post i wanted to read on a sunday morning, but thanks for the information. still waiting for kestrel test build.

GroovyMicky Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:29:58 AM

Nice to hear from you Junyor, keep up the good work guys. We'll wait for even improved best browser on the planet. smile

porneL Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:36:18 AM

About encodings: did you add workaround for a notorious Outlook Express bug when it doesn't add Content-Type header?

Since this s**tty client is ubiquitous, user education is a hopeless struggle, and every other client than Opera can deal with that bug (by falling back to a certain user-defined encoding).

Opera falls back to hard-coded latin1 and then to utf-8, if user's default encoding is not latin1. This causes havoc on Usenet and makes only M2 appear broken.

Thelomen Toblakai Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:37:08 AM

Thx for the post, Tim smile Now get yourself a proper image and account here so we don't have to mix you up with Junyor smile

I have the feeling that so much work will go into the rendering engine for Kestrel, other new features will have to wait. My expectations is that Kestrel mainly will be a better browser (better, faster rendering, more compatible etc.), while the coolest newest features will have to wait for Peregrin (Kestrel will pawn the way). Kestrel seems to be mostly about improving mail and browser core (which is a superb thing to do smile

My only fear is that until Kestrel is released, you guys will have to set up a clinic for all the deprived desktopteam-aholics in here knockout

Luchio Sunday, August 26, 2007 12:13:36 PM

@Thelomen Toblakai: Tim Altman IS Junyor.

Arthur WilkinsonGT500 Sunday, August 26, 2007 1:00:35 PM

Many thanks for the update Tim. I've already come to the conclusion that it will be at least another month or two before I see a build of Kestrel. I appreciate the explanation as to why it's taking so long.

I wish that I, like you, could work for Opera Software from home. Unfortunately they didn't seem to think that they needed testers for their internal builds that couldn't report to the headquarters in Norway. wink

EricJH Sunday, August 26, 2007 1:20:40 PM

Glad to hear some official notes on the upcoming Kestrel.

I'll just have to make myself patiently wait.:|

Tim AltmanJunyor Sunday, August 26, 2007 1:24:08 PM

@GT500: I started out working in Oslo and ended up living there for a year and a half before moving back to the US.

icare Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:29:29 PM

Thanks for the info. smile

Andrew NguyenSouthernCross Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:55:04 PM

That's what makes Opera great. The strict quality standards. bigsmile
wait

Doliprane'Doliprane Sunday, August 26, 2007 3:16:12 PM

thanks at least for letting us know, we thought we had been forgotten by you guys, well we waited all this time, we can wait further, but better be a good build smile

rghammo Sunday, August 26, 2007 5:06:21 PM

"Many users have requested the ability to manually update newsfeeds even if they aren't due for an update. OK, done! If you are in the main newsfeeds access point, pressing F5 will update all newsfeeds."

Thanks so much for this. One question: will there also be improved management of feeds, something along the lines of folders? It would be really amazing if I could put a bunch of feeds into a folder and "update all" for the feeds in that folder. The update all you mention will be very nice and is much appreciated, but folders with "update folder" as an option would be great. Thanks for all your work!

Andresandresruiz Sunday, August 26, 2007 6:25:40 PM

@Junyor
Thanks for reply, my comment wasn't a "wish"...it was a "question".
Anyway, I've posted a "wish" about read and delivery confirmations in the proper place you've said.
Tks again.

bohemp Sunday, August 26, 2007 6:37:37 PM

keep on going guys

Remco Lantingremcolanting Sunday, August 26, 2007 6:40:12 PM

Originally posted by serious:

The "main newsfeed access point" as you call it should be accessable through the panel somehow (or have I missed something?) as I only use the panel for mail/feeds and never the menu.

Already there, although not very obvious:

Click the top rss feed in the list, it will open. Then click it again. It should be selected now. Now press the up key on your keyboard to open the full listing.

This works for mail/news accounts too smile

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