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Slightly ajar

Dev.Relations

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You'll probably not be surprised to find out that one of the most important things for a browser vendor is web site compatibility. If a site doesn't work, users can't use your browser. So it goes without saying that web designers and developers are incredibly important. To this end, we are currently building up our developer relations team. We produce the best browser and have the best standards support in the industry, so we want the best in the industry to work with us on developer relations. As part of our efforts we are in the process of building our developer site, Dev Opera, and Opera Labs which focuses on future technology, research and upcoming products. We looked far and wide to find the right person to lead up those efforts. It wasn't an easy task, as we needed someone that not only knew their way around editing technical documents, but knew the industry inside out, knows what developers are interested in and has a passion for web standards and web technology. After a lot of searching, we think we've found that person in Chris Mills, the now former senior editor at Friends of Ed. There he was responsible for editing some of the best books on web standards, by some of the best known and respected standards advocates and bloggers (and books on Flash, but no one is perfect eh Chris?). As an added bonus, he is a fellow Brit, which means we all don't have to write American English :wink:. I'm confident we've found the right person to take our efforts further. Those efforts will involve rebuilding and branding those resources, to make them best of breed services to web designers. The focus will be on cross browser and cross device development and not single vendor solutions. We'll have a lot of engaging content in the coming months.

The developer sites won't be our only area of focus. Open the Web is clearly an important area to improve compatibility and standards support on the web. As we build up our resources we can build on the work I've already done in this area and get more sites to fix their issues in Opera and other standards based browsers. We are currently working with Palm on Open the Web. Their upcoming Foleo product uses the Opera Core-2 rendering engine, which will have similar standards support as Opera Kestrel. Making your web site work in Opera desktop will also take you a long way towards supporting our other browsers such as the Foleo, Wii, Opera Mini et al. We are currently trying to build relationships with some of the biggest sites on the web, to make sure we can give them top support when they have issues with Opera, and so we can report issues and solutions to them as soon as we find them. As always, if you have a issue in Opera we'd like to hear from you.

Feedback from developers is another important area for our team to focus on. We are making sure we listen to issues web developers have, and make sure something is done about them, whether that is bugs they are having issues with (you think our DOM is buggy? We want to fix it), missing standards support, or developer tools. We are currently looking at what CSS3 features designers most want for example. Developer tools is the issue we've heard loud and clear, and we've been working for a while on filling that gap. Once our tools are at a useable level we'll be soliciting feedback to make sure they are exactly the tools that will help developers. We won't be happy until they kick every other developer tool into touch and make it a pleasure to test in Opera. I like to think Opera is the browser that listens to developers, and we plan to do a lot more of that. Not only listening though, but putting the feedback into action.

Opera Mini 4 Beta 2 and Mobile Web DesignKestrel spreads its wings on test flight

Comments

Anonymous 31. August 2007, 12:32

Duncan Lock writes:

I really hope that Opera comes up with the goods on developer tools - I'd really prefer to use Opera for development, but the lack of tools basically forces me to use Firefox.
This is a bit of a wrench as a long time Opera fan but since becoming a full time web developer, I've found that I don't really have much choice. Firebug and the Web Developer Tool bar extensions for Firefox are such powerful tools and huge time savers that using any other browser for development doesn't really make much sense. These - and other extensions like them - turn Firefox into a web development IDE, as much as a browser.
Sadly, the crappy little bookmarklet 'tools' which Opera has come up with thus far, don't inspire much confidence. Whatever Opera comes up with needs to be native, built in, fast and at least as good as Firebug+WebDevToolbar - otherwise, what's the point?

dflock 31. August 2007, 12:37

Oops, forgot to login for that last comment.

Firefox extensions that Opera ought to be looking at for 'inspiration':
(By 'inspiration' I mean just copy them exactly, ok?)

The two absolute must-have extensions for anyone who builds web sites:

* Web Developer - http://chrispederick.com/work/webdeveloper/

* FireBug - http://www.joehewitt.com/software/firebug/

Also good:

* ViewSourceChart - http://jennifermadden.com/scripts/ViewRenderedSource.html

* ColorVilla - http://www.iosart.com/firefox/colorzilla/index.html

There are many other useful ones, but these are the core - if Opera had these features built in, I would be developing sites in Opera again.

Also, the other thing that pushed me over to Firefox was the fact that Google Reader doesn't work in Opera. As I read a lot of feeds and use this basically all the time, that pretty much forced me to stop using Opera for a lot of browsing.
I know M2 does RSS, but that locks you into one computer and gets really slow once you've got a lot of feeds. Also, if you only want to use M2 for feeds, you have to setup a dummy email account just to switch it on.

Anonymous 31. August 2007, 13:11

Brian LePore writes:

While I agree with Duncan, I feel I need to add a request for something similar to the Tamper Data extension from Firefox. I love being able to test the HTTP request information. Not only does this let me test my scripts when information is correctly supplied, but I can also test it against invalid input. Also, a JavaScript debugger like Venkman wouldn't be frowned upon. :)

Also, I'm sorry to say that I absolutely hate Opera's DOM inspector. I have a dual monitor setup so I hate that I can't move it onto my second screen to go back and forth between things, and just found it clunky to work with. I've been trying to figure out why a user can't select the text/type/scroll inside "windows" created with the Prototype Window Class (but can click and drag them) in my page layout (basically copying the layout from the recent A List Apart article on Conflicting Absolute Positions) for about two weeks now to no avail. It's annoying that it doesn't highlight the element that you're inspecting currently. I've found that I have to use the mouseover DOM inspector to find out the element id (since it's generated randomly), then go to the regular one to inspect what CSS rules are being applied to it and its surrounding elements. This bug is the major of the two bugs with Opera that we've found while working on our new Web editor (the other being that Opera loses selection after a user clicks on a button to apply a styling rule such as bold or italics) and thus means we can't support it. After finally being able to add Safari support I really do not want to have to drop Opera.

dflock 31. August 2007, 13:24

Hey Brian,
I've noticed that 'loses-focus-when-clicking-buttons' bug in Opera when using other Web Editors (Like TinyMCE, for example) - you select text, and click on 'Bold' and Opera loses the selection and the 'Bold' button has nothing selected to make bold.
This either means that nothing happens, you get an invisible '<b></b>' or '<strong></strong>' in the code, or the next thing you click on gets bolded.

Quite annoying really.

This - and the fact that some popular editors don't really work in Opera at all (FCKEditor, for example) makes Opera a really poor choice for anyone using a blog, or using web based email, or managing a site with a CMS - which is actually quite a lot of people, nowadays.

dstorey 31. August 2007, 13:37

Duncan: The bookmarklet tools were a stop gap solution developed by the Web Apps team, without any access to the Opera core. The developer tools we are building now will have integration into the browser and will be far more advanced. They most likely wont be at the level of Firebug for the first release because they are work in progress, and will be released to get better tools out there than we have now and to get important feedback. They will evolve quickly into a very polished product from there. We'll look into your suggestions and take anything on board if we haven't looked at it already.

For the loss of focus bug, if it is the issue I'm thinking of, it has been fixed in Kestrel.


dflock 31. August 2007, 14:29

Well, that's good to know - can't wait for Tuesday and the first Kestrel build!

On the subject of useful web dev. extensions then, these are some of the others that I use regularly:

* LiveHTTPHeaders - http://livehttpheaders.mozdev.org/ - See, edit, replay live HTTP headers.
* ShowIP - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/590 - Show the IP address of the current page in the status bar. It also allows querying custom services by IP (right mouse button) and Hostname (left mouse button), like whois, netcraft.
* HTMLValidator - https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/249 - a bit slow, but pretty useful. Overlaps a bit with WebDevToolbar.

_Grey_ 31. August 2007, 15:04

@dstorey: The button thing sounds alot like a bug I filed - bug #247273.

edit:
@Duncan: Like drlaunch I, too, have been using Google Reader for nearly a year now. The initial problems prevented me from changing my prefs, but apart from that it worked from the start, and changing prefs has been working for months and months now.

drlaunch 31. August 2007, 15:50

Hello Duncan.

I've been using Google Reader comfortably in Opera for many months now. They even released a Wii-specific version of Google Reader.

Personally, I don't mind developing in Opera. But that's probably because I'm a beginner, and all the developer tools I've tried so far only confuse me. I'm not using JavaScript yet either. I'm doing HTML + CSS mostly now.

vithar 31. August 2007, 19:05

+1 for the Firebug, LiveHTTPHeaders and HTMLValidator.

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