Divide and conquer
Saturday, January 26, 2008 6:02:11 PM
It feels to me as if we are at the start of another browser war. The calm before the storm is certainly over, following Opera's initial opening salvo. Microsoft's proposal is bad for the other browser vendors, bad for standards and bad for accessibility. I would consider it to be anti competitive. What is worrying for me is the whole fall out of this proposal, which has fractured the community.
There is a classic military technique called divide and conquer that has been used to great effect down the years by the British. With a number of leading web standards advocates under Microsoft NDA, and the WaSP in disarray (not to mention the whole CSS WG debate) , Microsoft (whether intentionally or not) seem to be using the same tactic to their benefit. It is imperative that WaSP and the web standards movement pull together as one, stop the in fighting, and have strong leadership. I for one would love to see Molly back involved. As the saying goes, United they stand, divided they fall.
Having thought about it more, it still feels like the meta element proposal is the web's equivalent of Microsoft driving the tanks into Poland. It must be stopped, but I'm not quite sure how yet. No one can stop MS implementing it if they do so wish. Maybe Opera's complaint wasn't so bad after all?
I'm still working through all the reasons in my head why this proposal is so bad for the web (and especially competing browser vendors), but one issue that immediately sprung to mind was that of accessibility. I fired off a e-mail to Bruce Lawson to confirm my feelings, and he agreed - Freezing the web to IE7 levels condemns much of it to inaccessibility.
IE7 accessibility bugs wont be the only ones frozen of course. Bugs in each new version of IE will also be frozen for all eternity, even if there is a bad regression that sneaks through. Any new standard that may come up in the future to aid accessibility (that isn't just a browser chrome or interaction enhancement) will not be supported unless the meta element is included stating the version of the browser that supports it, or a higher version. If accessibility bugs (or security bugs that effect rendering or expected JavaScript/DOM behaviour) get fixed, then the old rendering engines will not be fully compatible, and thus break the reason why they proposed this behaviour in the first place.
While I understand Chris Wilson's position on Don't break the Web
, and very much understand that this is an incredibly hard nut to crack (I work on similar issues every day), it feels like this proposal is more break the web for others
. There must be a better solution.
When the dust settles, will MS have Silverlight waiting in the wings, on its golden horse? A List Apart are even advertising the solution: Create next generation Web applications with Silverlight™. Get free online training now
. The Deck (the advertising network used) even states in emphases that We won’t take an ad unless we have paid for and/or used the product or service. If the web freezes development of standards by default, then perhaps Silverlight will become a much more viable alternative to the web for the many web developers that are not web standards experts and know to add the meta element or use the HTML5 doctype. Is this what MS (not necessarily Chris or the core of the IE team, who's commitment to standards I believe are genuine) secretly hope for?


Turin # Saturday, January 26, 2008 6:58:52 PM
Anonymous # Saturday, January 26, 2008 8:19:14 PM
Dustin WilsonKhadgar # Saturday, January 26, 2008 10:04:00 PM
I think you put it quite correctly, David, but something else supporters of this move really need to look at are the non-technical problems with this move. This would require Internet Explorer to keep renderers around from their previous versions like you say, but this means that with each new version there will be more BS for the program to go through just to render a page because of the baggage of the amount of renderers they would have to keep around. That would increase filesize and memory usage and decrease accessibility and speed. They've already created a similar rat's nest for themselves with Vista. It's a problem they're used to, but just like with Vista it's not a problem their users much care for.
I'm making an assumption here, but I wonder if this entire thing started when the IE team went to their superiors stating there was no way to keep up with the competition by repeatedly applying bandages to the Trident engine ulcer. I have no proof of this, but from what I read (and apparently you know first hand) the IE team really is dedicated to standards. Are they being forced to do this BS by others at Microsoft?
porneL # Sunday, January 27, 2008 2:51:52 AM
I don't mind the tag so much, as long as the default will be always the best mode. Otherwise we'll be seeing new sites written for IE7 long after IE7 is gone (just like IE5's quirksmode is immortal).
What Microsoft is doing is Fire and Motion — with each new IE version they will be able to freeze one more bug-engine their competitors will have to reverse-engineer and implement, while MS can work on a next one.
On the bright side — the easiest way to trigger IE8 mode will be marking document as HTML5, so if enough people recommend „ignore Microsoft, just use HTML5”, IE8 will accelerate HTML5 adoption a bit.
Anonymous # Sunday, January 27, 2008 6:12:01 AM
Dustin WilsonKhadgar # Sunday, January 27, 2008 8:43:23 AM
Opera and Safari recognize unknown elements correctly at the moment and also accept CSS for unknown elements correctly as well. IE does neither correctly like Firefox, but JavaScript behaviors can force it to do right such as what Dean Edwards does with his fantastic IE7 package. Neither IE nor Firefox will speed up HTML 5 adoption with these methods.
Using HTML 5 would force standards mode I'm sure, but the proposed meta element can still be used in HTML 5 even when it is invalid HTML 5 code. Creating invalid documents haven't stopped people in the past. Granted, it's pointless to use that in HTML 5, but the very idea that it can isn't very comforting. They can just add support for HTML 5 (which is still up in the air) and authors can just put that invalid meta element in there and have that new HTML 5 document frozen for eternity as an IE 8 document or even IE 7 or IE 6 if they don't use the new elements.
Let's not forget the fact that the WaSP is even divided on HTML 5; before this announcement the HTML 5 Working Draft was the big argument of the week. HTML 5 is likely to change quite a bit from what it is now, so in reality it's not a solution to anything yet.
Anonymous # Sunday, January 27, 2008 7:40:23 PM
Kelson VibberKelson # Monday, January 28, 2008 6:06:30 PM
So true. I've occasionally found myself arguing with people who claimed that IE's quirks mode was the de facto standard, so instead of other browsers conforming to some darn-fool-idealistic standard and complaining that IE doesn't match, they should all comply with IE's interpretation instead.
Anonymous # Wednesday, January 30, 2008 4:47:38 PM
richardyork # Wednesday, January 30, 2008 6:01:14 PM
David Storeydstorey # Tuesday, February 5, 2008 12:19:41 AM