..out of the dark

Re: Status on the LMG (with attachment and upgrade) problem?
From: fleinn
To: zpr_DunhamSmash
on 02-10-2010 03:35 PM
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zpr_DunhamSmash wrote:

But we also have a team of designers here who have their own ideas and fixes that they implement as well (...)

..thank god.. No, that's.. what I'm wondering. If you're going to do visual tweaks for the look and feel, that make perfect sense, and fit with the design. But then have "other" input on stats and numbers, in a different tweaking process - that might end up creating these largely unintended results.

Not wanting to sound as if this is too serious or anything, but if you look at how Killzone 2 developed, it has that problem. The look and feel is intact compared to how it was initially. But the "other" pass removed control instability, changed weapon damage - and increased the effectiveness of all the "meta-gaming" techniques in the book. It also broke the animations in the game (you can turn faster than the models). Which is the perfect way to illustrate what happened: the game-mechanics were tweaked so much it was possible to play the game in a way that wasn't really designed.

..And maybe, I don't know, that on it's own made any objections to community suggestions seem very contrived. The objections would be, after all, if you always see that design as not really changing because of a few tweaks. And if such and such is what people want, then I suppose it would be hard to really object... if no harm is really done..?

But specifically - with a gun that is powerful, and still stable - it gives you the opportunity to predictable run&gun. It means you're not really exposed when on the move. And with how the lag works in the game, that's a game-changer. Because it means that a platoon on a defensive line will lose to a disorganised platoon flicking back and forth while shooting. And that wouldn't be very good.

..I mean, at least some of us saw how hard Guerilla Games really worked to please everyone before and after the launch of the game. Still.. those people also mentioned to for example Seb that if they did some of the tweaks. The tweaks that would make the professional forum-complainers happy (or at least become quieter) - then a lot of players would just disappear from the game. Not because they didn't see enough fanservice, but because of those unintended results to the gameplay. So in the end, the discussion really was about weighing "hardcore" fan support (the ones who saw what GG was doing with teamwork and pacing of the gameplay - and who would've bought the game anyway), against support from new customers coming from the "other franchise" (the ones who really wanted the game reduced to a twitch-contest).

And the truth also was that a lot of those suggestions, when they were made, didn't make the professional forum-complainers happy anyway. They thought it would do something specific (such as convince "everyone" that the game was perfect), but the game didn't change the way they wanted.

..I mean.. maybe you could make a poll about whether people would want zipper to "stick to the design", and see what the results would be then

No, seriously, I just hope it's obvious that if some number-tweaks are done, it could make the game completely different, even if the design is the same. And that if those changes happen to the game - most people will deliberately ignore them, and obstinately play the game as it was meant. While the ones who don't will make the game play worse for everyone.

And the weapon damage/visual feedback (specially for the LMG), along with the med-kit spam - those are two examples of that. You keep seeing irritating stuff in the game, but a large majority of people will just avoid abusing it.

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So in the end you get posts like on the forum this morning: "the best way to make Zipper aware of an annoying imbalance, is to abuse it over and over and over, so it will turn up on the statistics". But a large part of the players will never care enough or have the time to do something like that.

cheers,
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