Wii browser out! But why Flash 7 and not 8 or 9?
Friday, 13. April 2007, 18:04:32
So Opera for Wii/the Wii Browser/the Internet Channel is finally out (that's our community manager Espen on the pic, by the way).
Reviews look very good, and people are commenting on how fast it is and how smoothly it operates. (Remember that you can continue to give the development team feedback.)
However, there is one thing a lot of people seem to be asking about:
Why didn't we update the Flash plugin to a more recent version?
The answer is simple: there is no way to do so. It is out of both Opera and Nintendo's hands.
The latest version of the Flash SDK (Software Development Kit) offered by Adobe is version 7, so that's what anyone who is not a Windows, Linux or Mac PC have to settle with. To support Flash on a phone or device, you have to license the Flash SDK from Adobe, and as long as they do not provide a more recent version, there is nothing you can do.
If Adobe had offered a more recent version, no one would have been more thrilled than us. It would have made more sites work, and that would lead to less frustration to our users.
Reviews look very good, and people are commenting on how fast it is and how smoothly it operates. (Remember that you can continue to give the development team feedback.)
However, there is one thing a lot of people seem to be asking about:
Why didn't we update the Flash plugin to a more recent version?
The answer is simple: there is no way to do so. It is out of both Opera and Nintendo's hands.
The latest version of the Flash SDK (Software Development Kit) offered by Adobe is version 7, so that's what anyone who is not a Windows, Linux or Mac PC have to settle with. To support Flash on a phone or device, you have to license the Flash SDK from Adobe, and as long as they do not provide a more recent version, there is nothing you can do.
If Adobe had offered a more recent version, no one would have been more thrilled than us. It would have made more sites work, and that would lead to less frustration to our users.
By -Lithium-, # 9. May 2007, 02:57:22
By userxxl, # 9. July 2007, 19:20:17
> ADOBE MAX 2007, CHICAGO - October 1, 2007
> Adobe Systems Incorporated (Nasdaq: ADBE) today announced the availability of Adobe® Flash® Lite™
Which appears to be a rich SDK for 'other' devices, including support for streaming video etc.
So, when is the update guys?
By woowoowoo, # 13. December 2007, 22:43:54
By haavard, # 14. December 2007, 10:00:53
When is the update coming out?
By anonymous user, # 6. January 2008, 01:05:15
By haavard, # 6. January 2008, 13:33:21
Any news? And if there isn't, where would we find out first? Nintendo or Opera?
By anonymous user, # 19. February 2008, 10:23:16
As of October 2007, Flash Player 7 SDK migrated to Flash Lite 3, which support Flash Player 8. Is a Wii Opera browser update in the works? Will it utilize the Flash Lite 3 software?
By anonymous user, # 9. March 2008, 21:53:01
it's been almost 6 months and opera still hasn't been updated?
opera can't say that the situation is out of their hands anymore. flash has migrated their software to a different version. opera needs to adjust.
when will they?
By anonymous user, # 11. March 2008, 20:15:34
Here's the relevant part:
And even with Flash Lite 3, the situation is out of our hands. Whether the Internet Channel is updated or not is up to Nintendo. They call all the shots.
By haavard, # 12. March 2008, 06:52:34
ok lets get one thing straight i love opera and the wii but nintendo is a do as little as possible company lets just say lazzy .the game cube and wii are almost the same systems. heres a exsample for $5 more the wii could have played dvds and dual layered dvds which would have ment bigger and better games but they were lazzy and cheep and look at the wii channel there not even trying to get the top n64 games out like resident evil and conkers bad fur day.but the worst thing is most of the good wii games are ps2 nock offs.
i love opera on my wii but why did you release something that hade problems and then charge for it and your saying that unless adobe releases flash sdk to your company we wont see a update we would not see a update any way cause that would require nintendo to get off there but and do something that cost money no matter how little the cost is and why did you give Nintendo The capability to call all the shots that was stupid its your product if you want to release a update you should be able to do it when you want to
By anonymous user, # 14. March 2008, 06:28:48
sorry about the ranting im just so angry i orderd the internet channel so i can watch videos off the net and opera cant play even half of them either come up with a update in a few months or give every body that paid for it a refund and dont use the adobe thing as a excuse force them, pay them,trade with them, merge with them i dont care there are options to get your way
By anonymous user, # 14. March 2008, 06:38:30
When I wrote this blog post, it was to explain why and how both Opera's and Nintendo's hands are tied because of Adobe. But even if Adobe had allowed Flash 9 to be ported (which it doesn't, so it is impossible for Nintendo to have Flash 9 support added), Opera's hand would still be tied as long as Nintendo doesn't ask for Flash 9 support.
It is not our place to tell our customers what to do. They are paying for the development, so they decide what goes and what doesn't.
By haavard, # 14. March 2008, 09:39:35
unacceptable. nin needs to drop opera or resolve this so there are no compatibility issues. Outdated software should be free of charge.
By anonymous user, # 16. March 2008, 19:19:54
Excuse me? Did you even read the blog post? It clearly explains that Flash 9 capability is out of both Opera and Nintendo's hands.
By haavard, # 17. March 2008, 06:49:43
haavard,
thanks for the clarification. i can see now that i'm barking up the wrong tree.
from what i now understand, we need to find a way to get in touch with the people in charge at adobe and ask them to allow flash 9 to be "ported"?
once adobe permits porting of flash 9, then we need to ask nintendo to ask you (opera development) to update their browser?
any idea on the best way to get adobe moving on this?
By anonymous user, # 21. March 2008, 00:18:59
if nintendo asked you to...
can you guys make the wii browser compatible with with flash lite 3?
maybe we should be barking at nintendo?
By anonymous user, # 21. March 2008, 20:22:01
By haavard, # 22. March 2008, 00:07:56
haavard,
can you update this post to reflect the fact that this issue is out of opera's hands, but NOT out of nintendo's hands?
as you confirmed, if nintendo requested that opera update their browser to support flash lite 3, that opera could indeed complete that request.
your current post is misleading and i think it is causing a log jam on the issue, because consumers are not voicing their opinions to nintendo due to the impression that nintendo has no control in the matter. on the contrary, nintendo is the only party that can solve this problem.
adobe has already done their part. they provided a migration path from flash player 7 sdk to flash lite 3 for browser developers to use.
the issue is not in adobe's hands any longer. the issue is in nintendo's hands. if the consumer had accurate knowledge about this issue, they would be asking nintendo to request an update. instead, people are waiting around or contacting adobe, who already addressed the issue.
please update your post.
By anonymous user, # 25. March 2008, 21:05:02
Note that Flash Lite 3 only offers compatibility with most of Flash 8, but not 9. As such, it would seem to be a dead end.
By haavard, # 25. March 2008, 22:11:34
i'm mad that the iphone will have better flash than the wii
By anonymous user, # 5. April 2008, 06:20:12
i've heard opera is NOT listening to what anyone is saying, and sense they are on the top of the marcket they will just watch us, until they lose 1st
By anonymous user, # 15. April 2008, 22:41:09
By haavard, # 16. April 2008, 05:06:07
I am not trying to lay blame on anyone, as you stated it is in the hands of Adobe and Nintendo.
But you have to admit that most Wii user's first experience with the Opera browser will leave a bad taste in their mouths. I, like I imagine most other Wii users, already have a computer through which we can browse the web. And it is much more convenient to browse through the computer than through the Wii for most of us that don't have or want a USB keyboard attached to our Wii. So this leads us to the logical conclusion that perhaps we would like to watch streaming video on our television sets through the Opera browser. Most of the streaming video sites, at least that I am interested in, require a later version of flash. So we do not get what we expected.
In my mind, what it boils down to is that you sold your services to Nintendo to basically make your product look bad. Sorry, I know it is not your fault, but guilt by association.
I would think you would want users of your product to enjoy the Opera browsing experience, so I would think it would be in your interest to make suggestions to Wii to push for this support. The way all your responses sounded to me, if they don't ask and pay for it, that is the end of the story. You will not go above and beyond that and even bring up the issue with them. Of course that is just the way your responses sounded, perhaps you actually did that.
Just my 2 cents.
By anonymous user, # 21. April 2008, 02:15:59
By haavard, # 21. April 2008, 05:56:17
"Note that Flash Lite 3 only offers compatibility with most of Flash 8, but not 9. As such, it would seem to be a dead end." - haavard
oh great, so we have adobe and nintendo sleeping on the issue. regardless, nintendo is really at the heart of this. if they don't request it, nothing will happen.
to that end, i have contacted nintendo and if any angry consumers are out there reading this, you should contact them too here...
http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/webform.jsp
you can use my letter as a template for your complaint.
i send nintendo the following letter:
"Dear Nintendo,
This request is in regard to the lack of Flash 8 or 9 support on the Internet Channel (Wii Opera internet browser). I have been in contact with the developers at both Adobe and Opera regarding this issue.
Adobe has informed me that as of October 1, 2007 the Micromedia Flash Player 7 SDK (which is used by Opera) will no longer be available and that the migration path for the Flash Player 7 SDK is Adobe Flash Lite 3.
When I approached Opera about the issue, they informed me that Flash Lite 3 could be made compatible with the Wii Opera internet browser, but it is not programmed to support it because Nintendo has not asked Opera development to implement the up to date Flash Lite 3 player.
Why has Nintendo not addressed this issue when the update has been available for over 6 months?
When is Nintendo going to request that Opera update the browser for the Wii and make it available to loyal Wii Internet Channel customers?
If cost is an issue, there are many consumers like myself who have already paid the 5 U.S. dollars to purchase the Wii Internet channel but were gravely disappointed to learn that most Flash video content is not viewable through the browser we just purchased. I would gladly pay another $5 to make the Internet Channel compatable with Flash 8 and 9 content through the use of the new development kit provided by Adobe, Flash Lite 3.
Please let us know when this will be addressed.
Sincerely,
Loyal Nintendo Customer"
Nintendo set me the following response:
"Message(#6851-000670-4599\6704599)
Hello and thank you for contacting Nintendo,
I appreciate your taking the time to share your comments with us in regard to wanting the Flash Player updated for the Internet Chennel. I will forward your e-mail on to the appropriate department for further review. While you won't be contacted further regarding this issue, please rest assured that your feedback will be taken into consideration when planning future applications.
Sincerely,
Nintendo of America Inc.
Sharon Matheny"
The only way this will ever be resolved is if we all make our wishes known to nintendo. please do something about this.
By anonymous user, # 24. April 2008, 17:14:53
i have also contacted adobe about this issue.
adobe can be contacted here:
https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/support/index.cfm?event=membership&returnURL=%2Fcfusion%2Fsupport%2Findex%2Ecfm%3Fevent%3Dportal%26loc%3Den%5Fus&loc=en_us
adobe responded like this:
"[[issue]]
nintendo wii/opera support for flash player
[[envi][
nintendo wii
opera
[[symptoms]]
currently not supported
[[aciton]]
sent to wish form
explained limited to the nintendo wii envi"
so basically, adobe sent the issue to a "wish form" the same way nintendo did.
the only way this will ever be resolved is if we all make our wishes known to nintendo.
By anonymous user, # 24. April 2008, 17:53:53
I am using the browser now, can you put java on it please
By anonymous user, # 30. April 2008, 09:11:32
By haavard, # 30. April 2008, 09:43:22
Does this announcement by Adobe mean you can now build in Flash 9 support?
http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2008/05/01/adobe_open_access_protocols/
By anonymous user, # 1. May 2008, 12:22:36
So is open flv and swf going to get us flash 8??
By anonymous user, # 2. May 2008, 23:17:31
Any update regarding Adobe opening Flash API and Opera Wii ?
By anonymous user, # 4. May 2008, 02:52:54
I think that the last question was a very interesting one. How will the 'opening' of Flash impact the Nintendo Wii Internet Channel and the Opera web browsers implementation of Flash. Will this finally get us Flash 9 on our Wii's?!?!
By anonymous user, # 21. May 2008, 20:08:23
Haavard, are you saying Opera would not be able to bundle some version of Java as it does Flash? I bet Sun Micro would be willing to give you license for free, if you negotiate, or even pay YOU to get Java on a most revolutionary console out there.
By anonymous user, # 23. May 2008, 19:23:42
By haavard, # 24. May 2008, 08:07:03
By rishimarcz, # 31. May 2008, 17:19:00
By haavard, # 2. June 2008, 10:35:26
Frankly this thread is reaching a rather ridiculous point.
By anonymous user, # 4. June 2008, 23:25:40
Even if Flash player 9 support were available, it might not be in Nintendo's 'corporate' interest to have Opera support it on the Wii.
Most likely Nintendo does not want the Flash player to be TOO powerful. Full Flash player 9 support would allow much higher quality Flash games with PS1-level 3D graphics, Wiimote support, and other features that would compete with downloadable content in the Wii Shop channel. There are some great Flash games available. Check newgrounds, armourgames, etc. More and more are appearing in 3D!
If you want to take a look at some of the more cutting-edge capabilities of the Flash 9 player (let's not even talk about the 10 player!), do a google search for:
1. papervision3d
2. sandy3d
3. wiiflash
;-)
By anonymous user, # 6. June 2008, 00:10:58
I hope the update will be released soon ! more & more sites don't work from the wii...
By anonymous user, # 23. June 2008, 13:58:34
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/Update4WiiNetChannel/
By anonymous user, # 23. June 2008, 19:58:23
Haarvard, so there's absolutely no chance at all for the Wii Internet channel to be upgraded to Flash Player 8 or 9 in the next few months?
By anonymous user, # 26. June 2008, 01:08:22
Hello to all. I need help with my nintendo wii. What version of adobe do I download to play videos on the internet channel using the wii? Thanks.
By anonymous user, # 30. June 2008, 01:44:14
By haavard, # 30. June 2008, 11:14:48
Flash Lite 3.1 is available and provides compatability (for the most part) with Flash 8 and Flash 9; the parts that are missing are generally too processor intensive for devices anyway. It appears there will never be an SDK for Flash 8, Flash 9 or any future versions as it would not make sense since devices could not run the full (processor intensive) versions of Flash beyond 7. Flash Lite will be the way to go.
See:
the file "Flash Lite 3 web browsability support guidelines for web developers (PDF, 412 KB)" at http://www.adobe.com/devnet/devices/
http://www.adobe.com/products/flashlite/faq/
http://flashmobileblog.com/?p=89
At this point it is up to Nintendo to ask Opera to use Flash Lite 3.1
By anonymous user, # 6. July 2008, 18:51:00
I just found this discussion, and I find it VERY interesting. I just bought a Wii, and quickly purchased the Internet Channel with the hopes of using it to watch Hulu.com, ABC.com, etc. Pop! My hopes were deflated.
Flash Lite 3.1 seems like a great step in the right direction, but I wonder if it may still not be enough. According to the FAQ, it seems to roughly match up to Flash 8.
http://www.adobe.com/products/flashlite/faq/
More concerning is the version checking the various video sites might be doing. If they have a simple "player must be version 9 or higher" check, it might exclude Flash Lite 3.1 even if it is technically capable of playing the video. Right?
That said, I would like to see Nintendo -- and by extension Opera -- adopt a policy of upgrading the browser as new Flash versions are available. If they have taken the stance that Flash is important enough to include in the browser, then they need to follow that path and keep it up to date.
Fingers crossed...
By anonymous user, # 8. July 2008, 17:01:21
The .pdf listed in the link I gave previously provides the following information (extracts):
---------------
Flash Lite 3.1 software offers the following high-level features:
• Support for playing most content that is compatible with Flash Player 9 or earlier. Flash Lite 3.1 can also broadcast itself as Flash Player 9 compatible and can play back content created with ActionScript™ 2.0. However, Flash Lite 3.1 cannot play back Flash Player 9 compatible content based on ActionScript 3.0. (Flash Lite 3.1 does not support ActionScript 3.0.)
• Support for FLV video created with Flash 7 (Sorenson), Flash 8 (On2 VP6), and Flash 9.5 (H.264) software.
• Support for most ActionScript 2.0 objects and methods.
Adobe Flash 9 support
Flash Lite 3.1 can broadcast itself as Flash Player 9 compatible to play back any ActionScript 2.0 SWF content, even if the content was authored using Flash 9 technology.
Flash Lite 3.1 broadcasts as Flash Player 9. This means that a website with embedded SWF content is passed to the Flash Lite 3.1 plug-in. Flash Lite 3.1 evaluates the SWF content and either plays it back or displays a user-friendly icon along with a message indicating that the website content is not supported by the plug-in embedded in the browser.
-----------
FLASH programming is not my area so I could be entirely wrong, but I think the parts of FLASH 8 and 9 support that are missing in FLASH Lite 3.1 are relevent to say FLASH games rather than video. I read elsewhere that ActionScript 3.0 support is on its way too.
I wonder how long it would take to switch to FLASH Lite 3.x if the decision were taken now. I imagine Haarvard would know....
By anonymous user, # 8. July 2008, 18:24:50
I feel cheated, .. i had to pay for wii points, this browser is for my kids, and as usual they visit kidswebsites which are all in flash, none of those work so i got something which doesn't work try explaining to your kids that they require flash and there is no real solution for it.
By anonymous user, # 14. July 2008, 09:50:45
Not that this matters because the wii is so popular but my household is holding off any future purchases for the wii until flash is upgraded. Even though the issue is now in nintendo's hands; Its Opera's name that appears on the internet channel. So its Opera that users will associate with the browsing experience. Maybe users and Opera can leverage Nintendo to finally make the request for an upgrade, its for the greater good.
By anonymous user, # 17. July 2008, 20:28:16
I feel cheated. It seems that most anyone who would download the internet channel would also have another primary computer with which they would do the majority of their web browsing. Which means that the vast majority of Wii Opera users want it for the convenience of watching flash videos on their televisions. It seems amazing that they would advertise a 'web browsing' product that will only actually browse about half the most popular sites. That's like buying a car whose engine runs great but it has no wheels...oh, and by the way, the manufacturer has no plans of actually making and wheels compatible for the car.
Spare me the "it's not Nintendo's fault" crap. If I'm not mistaken, it was Nintendo that advertised that they had a web browser for the wii. As far as I know, Adobe isn't responsible for Nintendo lying to me.
By anonymous user, # 19. July 2008, 05:00:17