A Blog From Behind the Trenches

I personally don't mind the lack of Flash, but would love to know if SVG and/or the Canvas element are supported as alternative...

Also, hypothetically speaking, any idea if the system requirements for running OGG Theora video are lower than those for Flash Lite? I'm curious if future versions of Opera Mobile/Mini could have video in that form...

Last i heard, the wii was bound to flash 7 as that is as high as the SDK goes. Does your chatter of flash lite mean that the wii will eventually be able to support more current flash technologies taking the flash lite path?

Looking forward to the USA release

CHIIHUAs writes:

You know i just got my dsi i wish i wouldve gotten a psp because of the lack of flash nintendo aint making smart moves no more!

wut writes:

@CHIIHUAs:

Would it be a smart move to add Flash to the DS when it doesn't even have the memory or CPU to run it?

Dumbass.

DrDark writes:

Hmmm. Well, first of all that Joystiq article is somewhat outdated. The main DSi processor actually runs at 133MHz not 67, and I'm not sure what the second one is now clocked at. The RAM has increased to 16MB (previously 4) so that would still pose a problem based on the Flash Lite specs.

Surely someone at Opera enjoys a good challenge though? ;)

Joking aside, I do realise Nintendo call the shots, but it'd be nice to have some functionality there, even if just flash7. At least the DS platform can now receive regular updates, so we can have hope for the future.

Anonymous writes:

@DrDark, how is the DSi supposed to run Flash 7 or Flash Lite if it doesn't even reach the basic requirements?

Anonymous writes:

I'm tired of everyone saying "Oh, well, the DSi can't support it, it would crash". The point is, we want flash. Give us flash. Make it possible to play videos on the DSi. I hope people request this from Nintendo or someone develops it such as Homebrew. The point of having a browser isn't just to sluggishly look at webpages, it's also to play video on said webpages and do anything a normal browser would do.

Adobe Flash Lite:
http://www.adobe.com/products/flashlite/faq/

Anonymouses be patient if they can get it to work on the DSi they might be able to. I am not sure on how much battery it would use playing flash videos (streaming and playback + sound)

sigh writes:

@the moron above

> I'm tired of everyone saying "Oh, well, the DSi
> can't support it, it would crash"

No, you moron, it wouldn't crash. It simply DOES NOT HAVE THE MEMORY OR CPU TO RUN IT.

RAM requirements for Flash Lite: UI 4-6 M, video 32 MB.

DSi RAM: 16 MB.

CONCLUSION: The DSi has LESS THAN HALF the RAM necessary to view videos using Flash Lite!

> The point is, we want flash.

That's irrelevant when the DSi doesn't even reach the minimum requirements to run it!

Stop being a moron and pay attention.

Anonymous writes:

Why don't you stop being such a jerk? You can make your point without calling someone a moron, idiot.

If you even bothered to read my post rather than trying to break it down to suit your inferior intelligence, you would realize that I was demanding flash. When you demand flash, it has to happen. Just like if you demand that someone burns your neighbors house down because he pissed you off.

See, my logic is all knowing, and yours is just, well, sad. Thanks for playing, though. =)

Robert writes:

@ Anonymous #20: Hey man, don't let that asshole get to you. He's been posting tough-guy responses to every other post to show how "smart" he is, when in reality he's just a douchebag with too much time on his hands.

Remember, if it was people like this sad sack of testicular cancer that ran the world, we wouldn't have nice things, because according to him, if it's set in stone, it's set in stone. No thinking outside the box for that guy.

All insults held aside though, the asshole does make a point, it is impossible for flash to run on it with any remote workability. HOWEVER, he's wrong in that, there are ways to work around this. I know for a fact that it's possible to workaround this problem. But, it will take time.

However, the rumor going around is that Nintendo is working on a fix for this. How true is this rumor? Who knows. Oh wait, I think I do. Anonymous know it all, please stand up, please stand up. XD

Anonymous writes:

Only an idiot will think that just because you demand Flash support, the DSi's specifications will magically transform themselves into being able to run Flash.

Welcome to the world of insane fantasies :D

DrDark writes:

Going back to that Flashlite faq page, I realised it says "32MB of RAM for web browsing for optimal performance", so as Robert says, there are probably ways to work around this. And for the record, I never demanded flash, I just thought some devs out there might like a challenge. I do believe it's far from "impossible". That's such a strong word, and shouldn't be used lightly.

Anonymous writes:

Adobe obviously wants to make the system requirements look as good as possible. So 32 MB RAM is probably not enough to show videos. Which is what most people want it for. Notice how they exclude video from anything below 32 MB!

Anonymous writes:

Im sure a big company like Nintendo could (if they wanted to) strike a deal to make some sort of Flash Lite Lite specially for the DSi so actually it is possible who said it HAS to be Flash Lite running on the Dsi

wutufu writes:

You don't get it, do you?

It doesn't matter that Nintendo can LICENSE Flash Lite when the DSi IS NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH TO RUN IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

DarthSensate writes:

A simple solution would be for Nintendo to provide a flash video transcoding portal via their club.nintendo.com site. For that matter, any website could operate a video stream transcoding service that could meet the specs for whatever bitrate and video format the DSi browser can be made to support. Therefore it would not be necessary for the DSi/Opera browser to shoehorn a Flash "Extra-Lite" client into the DSi. Just a slim, low rez MPG/AVI/DIVX/etc client.

This would NOT address the lack of support for Flash GAMES... only video streams.

Dudes writes:

Flash on the PSP is half assed. You always get out of memory errors.....

Unless the slim psps are better....

Anonymous writes:

ok, so the bare bones flash is too high for the basic capabilities of the DSi. Well then make a barer bones version.

Honestly though, nintendo should have taken flash into consideration (and in a way i'm sure they did) when they designed the DSi. They most likely decided they didn't want the option for various reasons.

overall i've been more and more dissapointed with my whole DS/DSi initiative.

I hadn't bought a console in some time. I got on a new shift at work with a lot of down time, and decided I needed something to occupy me. I looked at some refurb net books, but I decided I wanted to be able to play the new pokemons.. and heck, I mean it has a browser too.. so I should be able to watch capoeira videos and what not so i can continue to learn at work right? wrong..

So I went out and bought a DSi. I hadn't kept up, and found out, lo and behold, that it didn't have backwards compatibility.. Which i needed for the new pokemon games in order to trade "up" my old monsters.

So.. I ordered a refurb ds, some random accessories... oh and there is no port on the ds for cat5/cat6 (without buying the wifi adapter anyway) so I had to go buy a router for home use.

Well.. needless to say.. i've spent a good amount of money when I probably should have just taken the DSi back immediately.

The games are fun, but the netbook would have been a cheaper and better option.

Anonymous writes:

"make a barer bones version"

That only means that it won't work on most Flash content on the web, making it pointless.

"nintendo should have taken flash into consideration"

What, Nintendo should have made the DSi more expensive in order to do something which isn't even its primary purpose? Come on... The DSi is a gaming console, not a smartphone!

the king of dsi writes:

it just doesnt because it only says mac,windows and macintoch. not dsi?

i bet soon you can get an upgrade to watch vids:-)

kittman11 writes:

They really should make it at least flash player 7 or 8. Then I will be happy!:)

fewer sites are supporting older versions of flash player so it maybe harder to have an older version

yaw writes:

@kittman11, the DSi doesn't even come CLOSE to the minimum requirements for Flash.

Give it up already.

Anonymous writes:

Shit I havn't heard a single one of ya's just be happy with what you have it may be bare bones internet but stop bitching and whining atleast it's there to expand upon.

kitty-girl writes:

im happy with how the dsi came out i actually underestimated it when i bought it i dont really mind the fact that videos dont work on it im satisfied with what its got i find the picture alternating to be fun ^.^
i think its great as it is :)

Anonymous writes:

I think Personally

FUCK FLASH if you need to watch videos get a PSP

as long as you can view webpages you should be alright

one problem with view flash videos for a long time, they use a lot of bandwidth and they can be a battery drainer

you say you are against flash, If I recall right the PSP uses flash

Anonymous writes:

There could be a workaround that would involve the the SDHC of the dsi; you would have to download the entire clip to the SD memory and then have the DS stream the video/audio clip from the storage onto the screen. Maybe some slick homebrew coders can write an app that browses youtube videos similar to the iphone youtube browser, but there would need to be a hack for the dsi first, to get access to the full 16mb ram and faster cpu.

Anonymous writes:

The bitrate of youtube videos (LQ) is not that much more than DPG videos, but the resolution is higher..

What about HTML 5 and the video tag?

Bryan writes:

Here is a sort of an idea which could in theory help with the entire problem. Is it possible that they could release some sort of edited SD card to put into the SD card slot that would include a bit of extra RAM for the DSi to feed off of and include Flash that could be sold for, say, a buck? I think that an internet without flash content just isn't right, and in most cases, is a bit pointless unless you're just updating your Facebook profile or something like that. Speaking of which, wouldn't it be cool if there were an option to directly upload DSi photos to sites like Facebook or MySpace?

Bryan writes:

To add to my comment above, a seperate app made for YouTube videos would work very well, and I think would be widely welcomed.

Bryan writes:

To add to my comment above, a seperate app made for YouTube videos would work very well, and I think would be widely welcomed.

Anonymous writes:

i really don`t care too much 4 the videos. If i could just upload my photos to myspace i`d be happy. I mean come on people, the system can and will update to support flash eventually and will probably be youtube compatible as well. For now i`m content with the browser as it is. After all, if the system were already video enabled it would`ve cost alot more than 170$. Be happy with what we got now and patiently await the updates.

Clash writes:

I think you are all missing the point! There is really no question as to whether a solution to running flash player content can be developed (or anything else for that matter.) In fact it is a little naive to think otherwise. They can do whatever they want. Whether or not the system currently supports system requirements is not a valid point because if that were a consideration then it would have been designed to meet those requirements. When technologies are developed for the purpose of marketing those technologies, the considerations are not one of whether this is possible or not but one of is it in the best interest of profitability. The only reasonable explanation for the lack of the support for any technology web based or otherwise is what is going to make the corporation the most money.

In this case provision of web browsing is merely an attractive feature to aid in the marketing of the DSi. The reason for lack of full functionality in web browsing is an obvious one. Obviously the corporation is not going to give you functionality that ultimately dismisses the primary purpose of the device which is to make money on it.

Say for example Opera had full functionality with regard to Web browsing and my daughter was able to use all of her online sites to play games. If you think about it wouldn't this be a serious distraction from the marketing of games or anything else that Nintendo is selling to make money on the device? Why would they do that? If Opera was fully functional there would be so much to do with it that you could go right on using it with no need at all to spend anymore money on anything that Nintendo is marketing. Again this is not a matter of what is possible but what is most profitable. This applies to any technology Nintendo or otherwise. With technologies the possibilities are endless but those possibilities have to be managed in a way that is the most profitable way to do it!

JESUS CHRIST PEOPLE writes:

"the system can and will update to support flash eventually and will probably be youtube compatible as well"

It WILL NOT. It doesn't even reach the MINIMUM SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS for Flash Lite.

Anonymous writes:

system parameters are upgradable dude. just because it doesnt meet the requirements doesn`t mean they never will. computers are the same way; if i doesnt meet the requirement then you just upgrade nd update until it does.

Anonymous writes:

Oh and you do have a valid point clash but i would have to argue against that. Sure it would seem logically correct from one point but see it like this; most households now have internet enabled computer systems in their houses. And, said systems provide access to the same computer games you speak of. Yet, neither Nintendo, sony, or microsoft has lost money 4 it even though they all have various free versions of their games on the net.

Clash writes:

Well, if you are going to argue against it then you should really consider providing some empirical evidence to support your argument. What the consumer can or cannot do with their PC has nothing to do with their use of the DSi. They are two completely unrelated entities. What you do with your DSi is not influenced by what you can do with your PC or vice versa. How do you explain the fact that Nintendo's engineers did not provide this functionality? I mean it’s given that if they wanted to they could have and would have. What are your thoughts on how technology is marketed? Do you really believe that it is a matter of what can be done? Do you disagree that what is done is completely a matter of profitability? In other words, you know that they could have provided any component necessary for web browsing that is needed not just flash player and there has to be a reasonable explanation for why they did not. It is naive to think that it was anything else but a financial decision as it would not have been difficult or impossible to provide fully functional web browsing.

Consider this, would Nintendo prefer that you play games or surf YouTube for free on the internet using the DSi or for you to go to the shop channel and buy one of their games or for you to go out and buy a game cartridge. I am not saying that if opera was fully functional that necessarily the consumer would stop buying Nintendo's products all together. What I am saying is that it would be a serious distraction from the marketing of Nintendo's products that would be worth considering in managing the bottom line. The whole idea is to get you to buy the console and its media. The DSi is a child’s toy not some breakthrough to immerse you in some revolution of wireless web browsing!

Consider the argument you are making with regard to PC's. PC's are just as ensnared into this concept as the DSi. The marketing of any technology is based solely on the ability of the purveyor of that technology to make money, this true for any technology not just PC's or DSi's. The fact that we are even having a conversation about whether flash player is a possibility for the DSi is trivial and it is completely absurd to think that this functionality could not have been provided. In fact if you knew how fast the development of technology is really moving and you were aware of the mind boggling things that are happening you would probably be resigned to laugh at how underdeveloped the technologies that we are given the opportunity to consume are. The reason that you do not know about these things are again completely a matter of consumerism and marketing and really not one of honesty on the part of corporate institutions with regard to technology and its customers.

On a side note, I think that all of you that doubt that Nintendo can provide a solution that enables fully functional we browsing are forgetting that the DSi is a multi-media device. If there is some limitation on the part of the console that prohibits the support of fully functional web browsing then news flash there is a little slot on the back of your DSi that takes cartridges. Obviously a cartridge could be developed that expands the DSi functionality to a degree that would make it capable of flash player or anything else web related. Outside of that a Flash player version could be developed that would be compatible with the DSi. When an application is developed to have system requirements for a given hardware configuration only means that that is the way that specific version was developed and is not an indication that another version could not be developed with lower or even higher standards! I mean you know that the DSi has all the basic functionality of user input and device output, all that remains is to develop an application that makes use of those capabilities…. When you are talking about the capabilities of current flash player versions you are comparing apples to oranges.

geez writes:

"How do you explain the fact that Nintendo's engineers did not provide this functionality? I mean it’s given that if they wanted to they could have and would have."

FOR THE LAST DAMN TIME: Flash is TOO HEAVY FOR THE DSi. The DSi CAN'T HANDLE FLASH. It hardware is too crappy and slow.

"I am not saying that if opera was fully functional"

Opera IS fully functional. Flash is a plugin, not part of the browser.

Clash writes:

"FOR THE LAST DAMN TIME: Flash is TOO HEAVY FOR THE DSi. The DSi CAN'T HANDLE FLASH. It hardware is too crappy and slow."

PAY ATTENTION! I mean I know ADD is running rampant but GOD! You seem to have the attention span of a nat. You are totally missing the point! All you are really saying is that you did not read my post! What about the possibility of an expansion card? Again when you refer to current flash player versions you are comparing apples to oranges. The fact that existing flash player versions exist for the purposes they do does not mean that another version with lower requirements or requirements that meet the demands of OPERA could be developed.

Aside from and ignoring all that the main point you are missing is that if Nintendo wanted you to have Flash and the reason they are not is as you specify "It hardware is too crappy and slow" then they would have had different hardware standards when they designed the device. THEY DID NOT FOR A REASON!!!! THEY COULD HAVE DONE IT!!!!

Anonymous writes:

ok ok ok ... im tired of people saying that the dsi cant suport flash - it doesnt meet the requirments for flash. hears an idea ---- the wii's sd card slot can also act as a memory card so why cant the dsi? also i have been doing some research that in japan there is now a dsiware title called(??????)but it is also on the wii and is called wii no ma and lets you watch videos on the wii, the dsi channel lets you send videos from wii to dsi and lets you watch the videos on the go. the sd card could hold flash from your computer to the dsi no upload required to dsi. also for this feature there should be an intergrated internet optionlike on the ipod touch and i phone. big thing here hy cant we at least listen to music from sites like playlist.com all i am saying is that nintendo can do little things and make a big impact. one last thing - sony,apple,microsoft all have 2 things a computer model ex: hp or vizio or zune oripod - so why doesnt nintendo come into these frachises

I myself wonder if the HTML 5 video tag would work instead of flash
how much battery would playing flash videos use.

geez writes:

"the wii's sd card slot can also act as a memory card so why cant the dsi?"

The SD card slot does NOT give the Wii more RAM, only storage. The browser needs RAM. The DSi has too little RAM and too slow CPU.

So STOP BEING A MORON, AND PAY ATTENTION.

Anonymous writes:

Solid arguments here guys, i like it!Irly agree with long post guy, an expansion card would be great.they made a gba and ds slot browser for the ds lite that let you play videos,so its gotta be possible,but not profitable. Write an E-mail to Nintendo about this, seriously...

PS:i like the DSI browser...im using it to post this comment!

Clash writes:

Whoever this Geez writes guy is should stop blogging considering he is a Moron himself, does not really have anything to offer, and is just looking for any reason he can, without reading the posts completely mind you, to call people morons.

It does not take a lot of intelligence to read half a post and then say you are a moron for no reason.

You are an idiot. Find something better to do because you really do not know what you are talking about. You are really just an annoying dim wit!

GET LOST!!!!!

Geez writes:

@Clash, you are a moron. The problem isn't storage, it's CPU and RAM! Get that through your thick, impenetrable skull willya.