A Blog From Behind the Trenches

Originally posted by c69:

somehow i missed that completely

Happens to me occasionally. I finally just put a keyboard cheat-sheet into my notes panel

I am using Opera 10 on my Nokia E71 where no keyboard functionality involving F4 etc. is available , so I could not understand this solution, however well-meaning.

Originally posted by PULINC:

I am using Opera 10 on my Nokia E71 where no keyboard functionality involving F4 etc. is available , so I could not understand this solution, however well-meaning.

That is because you aren't supposed to be able to use it. It's not available to you. You should ignore it.

Give me the latest chit for Nokia 6233 phone

Originally posted by PULINC:

I am using Opera 10 on my Nokia E71 where no keyboard functionality involving F4 etc. is available , so I could not understand this solution, however well-meaning.

Tab grouping is for Opera running on a PC! You can get more info here: http://www.opera.com/browser/

Originally posted by PULINC:

I am using Opera 10 on my Nokia E71

For Opera Mobile, you should mostly have good bookmark habits, and use the "save page" option for things you will need later.

I would like To wish a HAPPY RAMADHAN To all Muslims all Over the World.

Farjad, those observing Ramadhan in the far North have their own special rules, did you know this? It is because the sun never sets in summer at the tips of the earth.

Well, nothing new to me. I use this since... I can't remember, but for quite a long long time. Usually I have 3-5 windows open each with 5-30 tabs. I especially like the way you create new windows out of a tab (just drag it outside of Opera and drop).

Originally posted by rafaelluik:

Originally posted by corppneq:

Gnome!?

Are you sure Gnome can't do that? KDE has this option...

I would like to combine only the Opera windows. How can I do that?

Originally posted by lucideer:

As I'm fairly sure you well know (as you and I have had this discussion before) I'm referring to Unite.

Oh, i thought you were referring to doing things correctly and not ugly workarounds. My mistake. Also Unite still can't affect the UI to this day afaik.

Originally posted by MyOpera team, please fix this!:

Oh, i thought you were referring to doing things correctly and not ugly workarounds. My mistake. Also Unite still can't affect the UI to this day afaik.

Your unrelenting tirade against every bit of limited extensibility that Opera offers you seems to imply to me that you actually believe no extensibility whatsoever is preferable to some limited way to partially get some of the features you may want.

Do you actually want extensibility at all? If you truly did, I would think you'd be developing for Unite - you may be frustrated with it's limitations but you'd still develop as it's all there is. Yet you don't. Why?

Originally posted by corppneq:

Originally posted by corppneq:

Gnome!?

Are you sure Gnome can't do that? KDE has this option...

I would like to combine only the Opera windows. How can I do that?

I don't know, try changing this option.

Originally posted by lucideer:

Your unrelenting tirade against every bit of limited extensibility that Opera offers you seems to imply to me that you actually believe no extensibility whatsoever is preferable to some limited way to partially get some of the features you may want.

I would prefer a half-assed extension api to none (what we have now). Unite is a web server. The best use of the web server I've seen was the ujs manager which is very impressive. FWIW, I'm not against Unite. I just don't feel that Unite is not for me. I don't feel that it is targetted at me. I'm not against Unite in any way besides I wish I didn't have to download since I know I'm not going to use it. It's just fluff to me.

Originally posted by lucideer:

If you truly did, I would think you'd be developing for Unite - you may be frustrated with it's limitations but you'd still develop as it's all there is. Yet you don't. Why?

I want an extension api. I don't see how that relates to unite at all. It is not an extension api. It is a webserver that you can make use of in unconventional ways and some have. That's great. More power to them and all the unite supporters. That's not what I want. I'm not sure how else to communicate that. If I wanted whatever scraps I could get, I would have written a dll/exe to accomplish the same type of things as others have in the past. I/we've been accepting scraps for many many years. Scraps will keep you alive but they don't fill the void. I want more.

If i was told or even under the impression that unite was a convoluted stepping stone on the route to extensions, that would make me feel better at least but I'm currently in a state of apathy. I haven't filed a bug in ages, not very active on the forums, or the dtt blog. I'm burnt out. I'm tired of feeling like the unloved part of the community (not me personally... just users like me).

Honestly, "Buttons" and "Menus" have offered plenty of installable customization. It'd be nice if they were slightly easier to manage, but I'm just not tempted by the current state of extensions in other browsers.

Originally posted by MyOpera team, please fix this!:

I want an extension api. I don't see how that relates to unite at all.

Perhaps this thread is (absolutely) the wrong place to outline the very specific criteria for meeting your requirements of a feature dubbed "extension api" - it would be interesting to know though. Can you extend the functionality of the browser with unite? Yes - this you've acknowledged. Is it a programming platform/API? Yes - this is fairly uncontestable... ... ...

Do you tell people Opera has an extension api and extensions now?

Originally posted by lucideer:

Can you extend the functionality of the browser with unite? Yes

I would say no. Although the only unite app I've been interested in was the ujs app, I would say that is a webpage with elevated rights. It can't do anything to the UI. It can't interface with specific mimetypes. It can't overlay anything on top of the browser. It doesn't have the capability to function on its own. It requires a webserver to be running and a userjs script to make it work completely. Keep in mind that I think the solution is architected as well as it can be but it is still a hack at the end of the day. We've been hacking functionality similar to extensions for a long time. What makes Unite unique in that regard? Am i missing something?

Originally posted by lucideer:

Is it a programming platform/API? Yes

We've had npapi way before Unite. People have compiled dll's and exe's that people have used to make ujs managers as well. So you think we've always had an extension api?

Look, this hardly has anything to do with tab-grouping at this point. But I can't point to any extension I've seen as being necessary...or even useful. What am I missing? Firefox memory leaks? Firefox crashes? What value can extensions deliver?

Time to take it to the forms

You got a mention here:

Opera Has Had Tab Grouping For A Long Time – Who Knew?
http://www.lockergnome.com/theoracle/2010/08/25/opera-has-had-tab-grouping-for-a-long-time-who-knew/

"Opera needs to pay less attention to saying, “hey, we did it first!” and maybe a little more attention to saying, “hey, we did it best”. Right now first doesn’t mean a whole lot, because people will always head towards the better execution of any idea."

http://www.firefoxfacts.com/2010/08/24/opera-tab-candy/

Tabs - Firefox and Chrome execute better.

Speed Dial - Safari executes better.

Originally posted by fastfoxy:

Speed Dial - Safari executes better.

Safari does not really have a speeddial, you can't choose what to have listed

Originally posted by fastfoxy:

Tabs - Firefox and Chrome execute better.

tabs are tabs, Chromes tabs copy Mac OS hardware test

Excuse me but Opera window / tab handling is much better: consistent, faster, you feel it's very well programmed and I like the way it doesn't creates a horizontal scrolling when there are many tabs and its thumbnails acts just as the perfect fit for finding a tab between so many (the thumbnails are very in a lot of times), whi others simply hide tabs and really open them like it's a "crap open-source programmed interface" I just don't know how to explain it but that's what I feel. Don't you feel it too?

Zoom: Opera does better.

Search box: Opera is very good because you can define keywords but Firefox does it better when you put the focus on the search box (instead of the keyword functionality that works on the adress field), because Firefox let's you to organize these searches up/down and it has a "reset defaults" button.

Speed Dial: Opera definitely does it better, you can choose exactly what websites you want there (and you have a top visited list when adding or editing an entry: it's perfect), you can also choose the exact thumbnail by even replacing it with a logo, and you choose when it must be refreshed, you can also have a secondary search engine there and set custom background.

Opera Link: I think Chrome does it better because there are more data that can be synchronized there... But there's no notes on Chrome so that's a -1 for them service. Do they have a web interface like http://link.opera.com[/URL]?

Tab Candy Sets Panorama (I'm confused, what's the name of this crap!?): we can only compare after Firefox with this feature is released, but I'd be happy with Opera's window panel simplicity if I needed such feature (I actually used the window panel for some days but I really don't need it).

Originally posted by fastfoxy:

"Opera needs to pay less attention to saying, “hey, we did it first!” and maybe a little more attention to saying, “hey, we did it best”. Right now first doesn’t mean a whole lot, because people will always head towards the better execution of any idea."

Fail troll is fail. This blog post doesn't say "hey, we did it first", it says "hey, here's how to do it in Opera."

Tabs - Firefox and Chrome execute better.

Wrong. Opera's tabs are superior to either of these. More correctly implemented, and much more flexible.

Speed Dial - Safari executes better.

Wrong. Opera's Speed Dial is beautiful in its simplicity, and doesn't randomly shuffle stuff around.

http://files.myopera.com/non-troppo/files/old_forum_import/window-proposal.png

After all this is better > http://my.opera.com/community/forums/topic.dml?id=58706

Eh. It's REALLY fast. I had 120 tabs open on my netbook, the cafe router reset and replaced many of them with low-level-redirect logins that trashed the original URL of each affected tab. Just like Firefox. But unlike Firefox, I loaded 110 additional tabs from my last session, and in 60 seconds I had everything repaired.

Now I am certain that many of you have never even dreamed of running more than 200 tabs on a netbook, but Opera's tab/window manager handled it just fine. The scalability and robustness of Opera is excellent, all we really need is more feature-exposure and another pretty button.

Originally posted by hellspork:

even dreamed of running more than 200 tabs

http://files.myopera.com/Tamil/Smilies/Whistle.gif -

I wish I could run more than 30 tabs on my laptop!

Well how old is it?

My laptop is from 2006, a 2 GHz Core Duo (not core 2!), 1 GB RAM. I think there are people doing more with Opera using older computers than mine... but I don't know how.

mine is core dual 2.33 ghz and from late 2006 (3 gb of ram) tho i have opened 175 tabs once have not done that in a while

leave a few tabs of news to get your self sleepy

I have to admit I have not seen many people in other browsers do what some Opera users do with tab #s (is there a easy way to count how many tabs are open in opera?)

...you'll know you're on the right track when the tabs fuzz together into a line, and soon afterward the skin will break (inch or two of blank space after last tab). When I take an exact count, I use a pen and the "windows" panel. Another good indicator is if your ctrl-tab menu extends past the edge of the screen.

Honestly Dillon, upgrading to 2GB could quintuple the tabs you are able to have open. Though even on a new, 1GB Win7 netbook I had no trouble with about fifty tabs in 10.62 .

The issue I have isn't so much with RAM I don't think... unless upgrading will mean less is paged. It's my page file that grows to the point where my computer throws errors like "not enough virtual memory" and I have to restart Opera. As is I can use 10-20 tabs for ~6 hours and 30 tabs for only a couple hours. I'll look into upgrading my RAM though. That stuff's really cheap and my computer just came out of a four year warranty so I don't need to worry about that.

My pagefile is 1.5GB and it's not being crushed by huge numbers of tabs in 10.10, 10.62, or both at the same time. Some people have reported that upgrading from "old" 10 to 10.5x or later, was causing some lingering issues due to a difference in the config files...? You could try placing a fresh copy of 10.62 in a different folder for comparison.

A screenshot of my current load today: http://my.opera.com/hellspork/albums/showpic.dml?album=875612&picture=70448572

See? Plenty of RAM and pagefile remaining. Sometimes I also open a session of Win98SE in Virtual PC, with client RAM of 256MB. I do sweat when available memory drops below 100MB, but that seldom happens.

Originally posted by fastfoxy:

"Opera needs to pay less attention to saying, “hey, we did it first!” and maybe a little more attention to saying, “hey, we did it best”.

The fact is, Firefox stole much features of Opera (in extensions), but they are working much worse, unstable, adds lags and incompatible with each other. They all just "Eye Candy" toys - agree with them

Originally posted by fastfoxy:

"Opera needs to pay less attention to saying, “hey, we did it first!” and maybe a little more attention to saying, “hey, we did it best”.

Opera did it first, and paved the way for others(Right from tabs/MDI, pop-up blocker, Speed Dial, even the latest Firefox beta looks). May be the other browsers may have implemented them better(?). But if not for Opera no browser would be having those features now. They would all be clueless . So be grateful for that!!

Originally posted by fastfoxy:

"Opera needs to pay less attention to saying, “hey, we did it first!” and maybe a little more attention to saying, “hey, we did it best”.

Opera did it first. Now no doubt, also Opera did it best.
firefanboy owned.

Well, now I'm waiting for stack managment incorporated into "Windows panel". It is natural to just make next level of hierarchy:

• Windows
  • Tabs in Window (outside of any stack).
  • Stacks
    • Tabs in Stacks.

Main operations will include: Moving selected tabs into other window or stack. Moving selected tabs and stacks into other window or into existing stack (merging). Closing selected items. Rearaning order.

Unneccessary trolling removed. -mod

Windows have worked fine a groups, for me. Stacks are tidy for sorting within one window, but I cannot save a stack as a session, nor load a session as a stack. Windows are still better as master groups.

Thus far I have found ONE extension useful: improved support for filesharing sites. I no longer use JDownloader for batches of archives.

Originally posted by Martinovic:

Windows ARE NOT Groups. No. Not ever. And just look at Opera 11 to get a clue.

Windows work fine as groups, but they suffer from the same problem as Firefox Panorama: Not that easy or intuitive to discover or use. Still, it works fine once you know about it and get it.

Also, extensions. I bet you all use them.

A surprising number of Opera users in this community seem to not use them. But I'm not sure what this has to do with tab grouping.