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Saturday, 5. April 2008, 13:46:23

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Once upon a time, there was only one important free mail service. When I left Oslo University to go to London and knew I was going to loose my student address, this was where I went to get a new mailbox. And even a couple of years later, when I started working for Opera, bugs affecting Hotmail were top-top-top priority. (Opera 7.51's bug 143675, "Opera deletes random messages from my Hotmail inbox" remains one of the scariest bugs I've analysed. Few bugs match that one in obvious and devastating violation of the user's trust.)

Well, how times have changed... A quick search of bugs filed for the respective services since GMail launched shows that there are roughly 3 times more GMail-bugs than Hotmail bugs in the bug tracker since 2004. Apparently, GMail's popularity has skyrocketed while Hotmail's has dropped, right?

Not so fast. Sometimes I see lists of E-mail addresses wherever random people register for newsletters or sign up for something in a reception. Technical people who tend to use Opera more frequently may lean heavily towards GMail, but among the general population Hotmail / Windows Live Mail is still a giant.

This is why I'm very glad to say that it should now be possible to use Hotmail's AJAXy interface with Opera 9.2x and 9.5. It's thanks to a sophisticated browser.js patch from David Bloom and an extra "spoof as Firefox" setting. If you're a Hotmail user, let me know how it works for you!

it's so nice to say ... goodbye!new spec for old key events

Comments

F-V 5. April 2008, 14:20

Could you elaborate on how we should be able to get this to work? Hotmail still shows me the 'light' interface, which is 'better for my browser'. I may be blind but I can't find a way to select the new interface.

NoteMe 5. April 2008, 15:35

I blogged about it a while ago. At least at that point hotmail did hide the upgrade link in opera. Se screenshot in my blog. I am on opera mini now so i can't be bothered to test again right now. But you should be able to upgrade using ie then ushe microsoft live hotmail advanced interface in opera.

hallvors 5. April 2008, 20:01

F_V: it should start working more or less automatically when Opera has fetched the site patching updates. You can do a "Help > Check for updates" and see if that works.

Other things to check

* On http://www.opera.com/docs/browserjs/ , the final bullet point in first list should contain a date - Match 21st 2008 or later should be the right version.

* If you log in to mail.live.com and look at "Tools > Advanced > Error console" you should see a message that starts "Opera has modified the JavaScript on mail.live.com (FireAnt.Debug.Trace tries to use arguments.callee.caller". (There will be many other reported errors, select "JavaScript" in the bottom right drop-down to find this more easily)

Finally, I think you don't need to restart Opera but I know Hotmail has some "this is an unsupported browser" cookies, so it may help if you still have problems after checking for updates.. Let me know how it goes!

burnout426 6. April 2008, 05:43

I see that it tries to load the ajaxy version, but I get the "Is this taking too long? Try the classic version" message.

Black Hope 6. April 2008, 06:33

It works on 9.2x, but on 9.5 build 9864 it stucks on loading (Is this taking too long? Try the classic version)

F-V 6. April 2008, 11:06

OK, it magically started working today when logging in.

In 9.2 it works, although quite sluggishly. Other thing is that random text selections seem to occur, especially when using spatial navigation.

In 9.5 I can't get past the Loading screen.

hallvors 6. April 2008, 12:26

9.5 had some known issues with JavaScript recently but I saw it working in a VERY new internal build. You may have to wait for the next weekly, sorry about that..

fearphage 6. April 2008, 17:29

@hallvors: Any reason hotmail fixes made it into browser.js and not gmail2 fixes? Just curious.

dapxin 8. April 2008, 04:38

How do I install this ?

fearphage 8. April 2008, 05:33

Nothing to install. It is automatic. At best, you can go to Help > Check for Updates to make it happen right now.

hallvors 8. April 2008, 15:00

fearphage: while I don't have really strict rules for what goes in, GMail 2 was not that much of a priority for several reasons: AFAIK it's still in development, some issues seemed like they should be fixed by us in core and the timing for core fixes in Kestrel was quite good, some things have been fixed by GMail, and finally I don't think end users notice that much of a difference between GMail 1 and GMail 2. At the moment Hotmail is a more stable target and less likely to fix things for Opera on their own. I may be wrong about any of those fuzzy factors in which case we perhaps should add patches for GMail 2.

kyleabaker 8. April 2008, 20:15

What is the date on the latest browser.js? I'm seeing:
The active browser.js file is Opera 9.50 , March 21, 2008.
But I thought it might be more recent than that..?

hallvors 10. April 2008, 17:25

That's the current version.

kamalesh 16. April 2008, 20:29

@fearphage: You're familiar with the Gmail2 url that lets the latest Kestrel build login properly, right, ergo, no gmail2 fixes needed...?

fearphage 17. April 2008, 11:49

Originally posted by kamalesh:

ergo, no gmail2 fixes needed

That might be going a little too far. Without any fixes, some aspects of gmail will be ugly and less functional. That url will get you into gmail2 and it will be "good enough" but it is not the same experience as using the script.

BaselXXX 22. April 2008, 17:40

Is it yet pushed in the portable version? I gotta ask it's people.

Chas4 30. April 2008, 00:11

I got it to use the fulll version on my Mac in Opera by masking as FireFox, and it works well :yes:

shaktiIIIgta 5. July 2008, 23:04

im using Opera 9.51 and cant see the full version of hotmail working anymore... thats goddamn sad, such an awesome browser and cant see that site. stupid site, the reason i use it its because of msn messenger thats all... i hate all other messaging clients

hallvors 8. July 2008, 17:18

shaktiIIIgta: how are things now? Some new Hotmail-related stuff in browser.js, though some users have reported the site doesn't load for them at all - since I could never reproduce this I have not been able to patch it yet.

Chas4 9. July 2008, 15:54

"Dear Charlie,


Thank you for writing back. My name is Julius and I have read the e-mail exchanges between you and the previous support representatives. You mentioned that both Opera and Safari browsers can handle the Full version of Windows Live Hotmail faster than Internet Explorer and Mozilla Firefox. I understand the importance of this matter to you.

Charlie, I appreciate your taking the time to send us your thoughts and suggestions about Windows Live Hotmail. We take feedback about Windows Live Hotmail product and service very seriously. It is through your comments and suggestions that we are able to know what our customers truly want. Although we are unable to take action on your comment immediately, rest assured that we are committed in upgrading the Windows Live Hotmail system to improve our service to you. You can expect to see many improvements in the near future.

We appreciate your continued support as we strive to provide you with the highest quality service available. Thank you for using Windows Live Hotmail."

Me bugging the Windows Live Hotmail team :ninja:

ChessMan3 15. July 2008, 09:53

Chas4 thanks for that login link. I can now sign in. I had the hardest time getting in with 9.51
Is it just me or is the net a heck of alot harder to surf recently!? I admit I'm on dial-up but still... Everything seems alot slower now. Opera 9.27 was way faster for me.

Chas4 18. July 2008, 00:51

When IE 8 is released in a final version and if they do a better job of standards support surfing may get easier and not just for Opera but the other non IE web browsers :ninja:

Chas4 18. September 2008, 12:04

Just found this out:

http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/comingsoon/en/default.htm

Anonymous 1. November 2008, 09:07

McKensy writes:

It's a reality! My Opera (9.62) doesn't work with Hotmail any more... Guess it's time to find a new mail-service provider...
McKensy

shaktiIIIgta 22. March 2009, 23:11

hi everybody now ( MAR-09 ) im using Opera 9.64 and besides full live hotmail doesnt work either it seems the light version of this free service works. Hoper someday people behind web designing RESPECT the standards, ... damn

Chas4 22. March 2009, 23:47

it is all one version the classic and the light were merged. You have to mask as ff to get hotmail to work and with the latest browser js

shaktiIIIgta 23. March 2009, 01:42

lol, havent tried the full mode of live mail for some time then...

didnt knew that, what i can tell is that maybe in the past version (9.63) or so... i had troubles when opening live mail hotmail and tried to attach and open attachments, y tried disabling the mask as ff, and updated to 9.64 and havent had a problem since, id love to see their numbers of Opera users entering the site increase, lol

Chas4 23. March 2009, 03:54

I have hotmail open all day in Opera :whistle:

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