Where has fansubbing gone? Part 2.
Wednesday, 26. November 2008, 21:08:28
In continuation from where I left off part one, as I mentioned last time to keep a specific quote in mind as I will explain further the happenings of recent doings by fansubbers. And in case you don't remember the quote, here it is once again, "we are not professional translators, and we are not making our translations available specifically for the american market." Now where to start? Well...
This time time I'll be talking about an anime called Toaru Majutsu no Index subbed by, you guessed it, Eclipse Productions. Like Akane-iro ni Somaru Saka, it has the same genre but is more "moe" than normal. It also apparently has "loli" moments, i.e. certain artistic scenes of the characters via face expressions. Anyway, below are several images from Eclipse dealing with the first 6 episodes as well. Like before, I'll try to keep what I'm trying to get at brief but some will be self-explanatory for which you can guess what is wrong. This post should at the end explain what I'm trying to get at when I mentioned the quote, if not, I'll try to give a short brief explanation.
According to my Oxford English dictionary, which is from the UK, and not some local wannabe. the word "kinda" doesn't exist. So where did Eclipse come up with this? Oh wait, Isn't "kinda" a colloquial word meaning "kind of" said locally in America?
By the way, the word wannabe which I used here, IS ACTUALLY in my dictionary.
Self-explanatory. So let's play a game: how many grammatical errors can you spot? As they say in fansub to describe these moments: fail. Note: if you are American or have experienced American culture, you won't find this hard to understand at all.
Another self-explanatory. Editor must have missed this? Perhaps. But this is so clear as a bell, the character in this scene is distinctly saying "I," but in Japanese culture, to express "cuteness" or whatever you want to think of it as, they "say" their name, instead. So in other words, the translation here was kept literal which only the Japanese would understand as this kind of speech is not used nor understandable in the English language. Another case of "fail" which scholars of the English language would say.
I wanted to put this at the end, but ended up using it here. Anyhow, this scene as well as all the other episodes Eclipse will sub/subbed, have a constant translation error. The scene (last line of each episode) mentions the word, "monogatari" which has several meanings, and "epic" ISN'T one of them. It's not a great issue but doing it in every episode is very much misleading for this anime, since epic: "a long narrative poem telling of a hero's deeds" (Princeton) isn't the same as "monogatari:" a tale, story or a legend. I'll leave this upon you for further research, but do note taking in context of this anime and what it is about. I personally would have used "tale" as it best fit the whole biblical references of the anime, and "story" and "legend" are used most often in fantasy (dealing with mythical creatures) animes, i.e. Deltora Quest (only one I can think off).
The pink haired midget character in this scene says "desu." But why? Again, due to the "cuteness" trend, as mentioned above. Though, the question arises why did Eclipse leave it romanised and what does it mean? Clearly with the romanised form, they have no idea what it means, despite the several hints and references from other animes in which "desu" has been used. Taking references and the characters actions while saying the word into context, "desu" somewhat, or at least via the expression itself clearly shows she is agreeing with something. Which happens to be true as the previous dialogue in the anime confirms it. That said, what can it be translated as? How about, "yes" or better, "right." Note: someone who has no knowledge of Japanese culture would never understand what "desu" means, and would prefer a note, right?
Yet there is no note either. 
Self-explanatory. And in case you don't understand what I mean, the use of a word "dissing" which is not found in the Oxford English dictionary. A common colloquial word use in local North American and some European lifestyle. Could have been replaced by several words, but Editor must have missed it, right? Or was this intentional? Seems so.
Not very self-explanatory as the word exists in the Oxford English dictionary, but we have an issue here. The problem is Japanese vocabulary is VERY limited when it comes to curses, as unlike Western society, Japanese culture is polished and well-mannered. So when you use "bullshit" in a place like this, English speakers would definately understand it, yes. But in the right context? Probably not. A word such as "nonsense" would have been much better for use than a slang term.
Lastly, the constant continuation of the non-globally used terms. Here we have a word used very much in the United States. "Antennae" or "Antennas" plural of "Antenna." There is nothing wrong with the translation or the editing here, but the issue is the actual term itself.--------------------------------------------------So where am I getting at? Well, as a quick reminder, lets' go back to the quote by Eclipse but a specific section: "...we are not making our translations available specifically for the american market." This is where the problem arises. They clearly mention it is NOT for the American market, yet the terms, phrasing, even grammar are all what Americans would understand with ease as it is THEIR language. An Indian nerd (living in India) would have a hard time grasping the meanings of the anime, especially romanised words,
. So hopefully now you understand what I've eluded to 
. The evidence is quite clear, and I can go further if needed. Lastly, whoever is Editing for Eclipse, take into consideration what it says on your OWN bloody site as well as the FACT when others say your Editing sucks, perhaps you can someday actually Edit something properly for the global mass? I sure do hope so.P.S. I had no intention bashing Eclipse but when Editing becomes this bad, word needs to get out, especially inside their minds. I liked their work on Hayate no Gotoku, and it didn't have any extreme cases like the two animes I mentioned in these posts. Also, Eclipse aren't the only one who has been doing horrible Editing, either lately or previously. Shinsen-Subs' Editing have been my long time nemesis, Froth-Bite (mostly the poor translation) and others I can't remember. Maybe in the future if I actually watch a long series from them, I'll write about it? Who knows.
WIDGETIZE
Danny Boy, FCD # 29. November 2008, 16:12
I know what you mean. Watching fansubs is hit-or-miss. Sometimes you get brilliant subbing, more often you get mediocre but still understandable subs. And if you're unlucky, you might even get an Anime Junkies sub. As they say, you get what you pay for.
Shinsen-Subs, I cringe when I have to settle with their works. Froth-Bite I dislike for the lifeless, wooden writing (it's like they ran their translation through Babelfish). Which is a shame, since they usually did series I did want to watch.
I probably haven't watched a fansub for over two years, so I can't say if things have improved. But since I wasted three years doing various odd jobs for several groups (Gawd I hate typesetting), and as a fansub consumer since the days of VHS tapes, I know that such things won't change very much. Some groups have ventured to money-making schemes, but for most it'll always be a hobby.
Cheers, and do tell us more. I no longer have access to my old groups' secret chans. I've always liked to hear group drama gossip.
jonnyquesty2k # 29. November 2008, 21:09
In regards to Froth-Bite, Sylf (who does everything for F-B, so technically it's a one man group) keeps his translation very loose, to the point where it looks like it was guessed, but you will also notice the way he phrases each sentence is not something you will hear in non-American society. And I'm not surprised, Sylf an American, probably wants to spend the least amount of time in the translation process by going loose but not be inaccurate, i.e. "Ja ne" means Goodbye or See you later, while technically speaking "Ja" in standalone means the same too, but some groups like to just state it as "Later" which is fine, but loose. Just because the Japanese themselves said part of it, doesn't mean the English translation would be just a part of it. Also, have you ever seen something by F-B which had explanatory notes in it? I don't recall anything.
Perhaps, I'll talk specifically about different Japanese words and phrases and their translation sometime, continue the talk about Editing (though half of what I watch are raws, so I'd be limited to certain fansubs and animes), or maybe as you said group drama gossip, for which there is one specifically but I haven't found a good way to target them yet.
Anonymous # 22. May 2009, 06:21
Not sure if you know this, but Sylf at Frostii (fka Froth-Bite) is native Japanese who moved to the US in his teenage years. He is fluent in both Japanese and American English! I am bilingual myself and speak the languages with equal strength. Thus, my trust goes to another bilingual person's "loose" translations rather than a monolingual person's, whose translation just comes from taking some language classes or from watching anime. Btw there explanatory notes posted on their site; check out their historical notes on Sengoku Basara.
jonnyquesty2k # 5. June 2009, 16:20
Hence, a reason why Europeans don't buy licensed copies, those that love licensed works, via import or other means. They just sub it themselves. In addition, I wouldn't say I wouldn't trust him, but personally as someone whose culture and language structure is the same as to the Japanese (latin vs. asian), I'd take the means of Editing the translation in according to the correct culture/structure.
This leads to another factor as to why the game Patapon 2 (sequel to the hit Patapon) didn't come out at the same time as it did in the US compared to EU. If you actually compare the text, you will notice they are different and made to suit their individual continents. Spelling, grammar, sentence structure all of it is not the same. Do note that, the US version however is completely suited to only "Americans" or the like. I find it offensive and preposterous, but it even references 9/11. I'm 100% certain, an average "American" (this entitles people who have no post-secondary educaton, nor have even completed their secondary) wouldn't understand the Japanese to English version, which I'm quite sure is the European version itself (same version which came out in Australia).
Anyways, if you disagree, that's fine, where one is entitled to their own opinions, but please do check out one thing and compare... A licensed version of Sylf's work and his own version, just the translation, and editing, if done by himself. Later in the future, especially regarding Candy boy, I'll write about his translation.
P.S. I don't watch nor care for Sengoku Basara, and as a fact, those historical notes are researched, NOT something any one of their staff/translators know by heart, hence why the first time around they screwed up.
Anonymous # 18. July 2009, 19:30
You seem to like your dictionary. Perhaps you should look up the meaning of the word "elude", as used in this clause of your post: "So hopefully now you understand what I've eluded to."
Now, as for the actual post:
If you buy the premise that people fluent in non-American dialects of English will not be able to understand all the Anerican wordings, then there's not much negative to say about this article. You make good points from that perspective.
But I seem to remember that quote from somewhere, and it feels to me like you may be taking it out of context. Correct me if I am wrong.
jonnyquesty2k # 18. July 2009, 19:51
A rephrased quote from koda: "Eclipse really does indeed have to work on their Editing." Ask around who koda is, and how she is related to Eclipse, if you don't know.