Mac Team

http://maps.google.com/maps/mpl?moduleurl=http://www.google.com/mapfiles/mapplets/categories/categories.xml&src=fc_2

does not work

build 4833

Thanks for the "back history" button fix!

I've been a loyal and previously paying customer of Opera for many years going back to at least version 5.

It just beggers belief for me that year after year we keep on getting sub par performance on Google sites. Google Reader is totally broken for me in the last 3 nightlies on both Windows and Mac. GMail UI=2 needs to be hacked to work and even then is a lottery at best. Google Docs, Calendar etc. etc.

Blaiming Google is a waste of time. All of these sites work in the other mainstream browsers. Camino does them all perfectly. Safari / Webkit is generally the same.

For the love of all that is holy, I'd like to see Opera stop blaming Google and take the steps, hard as they may be, to get in line with the other browser vendors and be able to support Google sites.

It is sort of like buying a TV that will not work properly with HBO (in the US). Opera needs to stop the excuses, stop the finger pointing and make sure there is 100% compliance and operability with Google (who I don't believe are going away any time soon).

At the moment I'm using Firefox 3 RC1, Camino and Webkit on Windows and Mac most of the time because these sites just don't work. How can that be good for Opera?

Frustrated. Michael

Michael, Opera has more web standarts support then most other browsers, some sites just have bad web coding


http://my.opera.com/community/openweb/

http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/opera9/index.dml

Also beta versions of software do have bugs

try the Stable Version 9.27

http://www.opera.com/download/index.dml?custom=yes

@Chas4

That is the normal response. It misses the point. I agree that Opera has fantastic standards and love the SVG, XSLT support etc. Brilliant. It is fast too. Biggest fan out there.

The point is that Google stuff does not work properly. Reader, Gmail, Maps etc. etc.

Other browser make it work. It is time for Opera to make it work. Stable no better and generally worse when it comes to Google sites.

BTW - have esablished the Google Reader does NOT work under https:// but does work without SSL. Again, the other browser don't have this problem.

Michael :-(

Michael have you checked the forms or filed a bug report?

http://www.google.com/support/reader/bin/answer.py?answer=69987

The Google Reader does not Supporty Opera

ask them to look at this page: http://my.opera.com/community/openweb/info/

@Chas4

More of the same. I can only guess your position is that Opera shouldn't try to work with Google sites because it isn't on the official list. I ask, would you buy an Opera TV if it didn't work ABC or other prime time stations? So I think your answer is that to use Google Reader, Google Maps, the modern version of Gmail etc. is that I fire up IE, Firefox, Camino, Safari / Webkit?

I ask again, how is that a good result for Opera? Could there be a correlation between low desktop marketshare and the inability to Opera for these mainstream sites?

I'll shut up now. Michael

Why Open the Web?

Despite the connecting purpose of the Web, it is not entirely open to all of its users. When used correctly, HTML documents can be displayed across platforms and devices. However, many devices are excluded access to Web content.

It is true that some sites are block becuase of the web browser or OS that the user is using, can you contact Google since I don't have a Google account and ask them to support Opera. It does work I have gotten other sites to open up

@hartley231: Your frustrations are exactly mine about Gmail2 and some other Google sites. You're missing something VERY big, though.

When you type in "gmail" in Opera you go to Gmail1. When you type in "gmail" in other browsers, you are taken to Gmail2. Do you know why that is? It's because Google DIRECTS Opera users to only Gmail1. Why the f-ck is that, Michael? The reason is because Google has enough resources to test on IE, FF, and Safari (Camino uses the same rendering engine as FF), and no inclination to test for Opera. Maybe it's because they don't have enough money or resources to hire one f-cking QA guy to test on Opera...or maybe it's for another reason I'm not aware of...

Your comments about Opera should "make it work with Google sites" is missing the point. Your TV analogy seems right, but it's simplistic and not analagous. The entire web is super dynamic with many different kinds of web code, not a single protocol TV signal. Actually the "single protocol TV signal" is what Opera is trying to support via open web standards, but do you know who is not so willing to support open standards? That's what the Acid2 and Acid3 tests are all about.

Opera and Safari are farthest ahead on Acid3. Do you know which two minority browsers are 3rd/4th? Do you see a pattern? The only way Opera/Safari will get more traction and come from behind, is if they make sites work with their browsers with "the path of least resistance." Open standards is the way to do that to help web developers not work double-time to support two more browsers. Write once, render anywhere.

Opera is working like crazy to work on site compatibility, open standards, and bug fixes; most of their decisions are excellent, a few aren't.

A really important thing to do as Opera users, is to email sites that block or don't work with Opera and say "Opera is my preferred browser, please support Opera so I can visit and use your site." (And also post it here, so we can check if it's an Opera issue.)

It's an ugly chicken-and-egg dilemma, but both Opera and its users will have to both push sites to support Opera explicitly. Also, as sites embrace open standards, they'll work as-is, but they will still have to spend HOURs and DAYs making it work for IE and FF, if they drag their feet on Acidx testing.

In my view, Google is using FF as a hammer against Microsoft, just as MS used IE against Netscape. I can go on for an hour and it gets more complicated, but maybe you get the gist.

As more people use Opera and notify sites to support Opera, the rest will take care of itself. (Forty-four million downloads of Opera Mini and a ton on Opera Mobile v9.5 coming soon, will help also.)

BTW, two simple examples are WSJ and MSNBC. Notice the fly out menus work in Opera, but that's because we mask Opera to those sites as FF or IE. If you switch Opera to identify as Opera, the menus doesn't fly-out. Why is that? It's because they intentionally BLOCK Opera from working properly. Why? Email them and ask.

@kamalesh do you have MSNBC's broswer support email address so I can bug them to support Opera I can't seem to find it

@Chas4: Here you go. Thanks for emailing them!

@@hartley231: You may want to check out MSNBC's pathetic excuse for only supporting IE, when they said, "It’s no secret that in years past, we haven’t always been the best online citizen" (their words), and promising to change in Nov. 2007.

Btw, WSJ contact page is here.

Knowing some of the Opera QA guys who have the formiddable job of reverse-engineering Google apps, I can tell you Opera works *very* hard to get the Google stuff working. Doing that sort of reverse-engineering is really tough, and often fruitless as Google switches code around often.

What is needed is a commitment from Google to accesibility and standards. They refuse to do so, no matter that they publish reports on web standards. So they use hacked unstandard messy code, put chewing-gum fixes in for webkit and ignore Opera. Opera tries to fix things as best they can, but such a hulking moving target is not easy to lock onto...

When I do bug web sites to allow Opera

I also bug them with this:

Why Open the Web?

Despite the connecting purpose of the Web, it is not entirely open to all of its users. When used correctly, HTML documents can be displayed across platforms and devices. However, many devices are excluded access to Web content.

http://my.opera.com/community/openweb/info/

I did send the WSJ an email, same with MSNBC now just waiting, mostly like likely on Tuesday (memorial day weekend)