The M2 concept
Monday, 10. May 2004, 19:38:48
I am quite impressed with the new e-mail client in Opera. While its implementation still needs some work -- especially regarding stability and IMAP features (and that is happening over time) -- the underlying concept is quite powerful.
I see a lot of people getting put off by how radically different it is from the conventional folder approach to organizing email. They also wonder why Opera cannot act in a sane fashion and simply call these filters or views as folders, like every other mail client does.
Following is my favorite way of illustrating the difference betwen the two approaches -- folders vs filters.
Imagine a basket full of different flowers. You have roses, lilies, daffodils etc. You have pink flowers, yellow flowers, red flowers and so on... There are two ways to organize these flowers.
Folder approach: You get a whole bunch of little baskets to arrange these flowers in. You have a basket for roses, another for lilies, one more for daffodils etc. You might choose to have smaller baskets for red roses, pink roses and so on... Each basket is a Folder.
Filter approach: You put all the flowers in a magic box. The magic box shows you what you want. If you say "red flowers", it will show you all the red roses, lilies etc. If you say "lilies", it will only show you lilies. If you say "yellow daffodils", it will only show you those. Each request you make to the magic box is a Filter.
You can imagine the power of the magic box in the Filter approach (M2) compared to the set of baskets in the Folder approach (your garden-variety
mail client). Since the magic box does not have little baskets inside, it is wrong to call Filters as Folders.
I see a lot of people getting put off by how radically different it is from the conventional folder approach to organizing email. They also wonder why Opera cannot act in a sane fashion and simply call these filters or views as folders, like every other mail client does.
Following is my favorite way of illustrating the difference betwen the two approaches -- folders vs filters.
Imagine a basket full of different flowers. You have roses, lilies, daffodils etc. You have pink flowers, yellow flowers, red flowers and so on... There are two ways to organize these flowers.
Folder approach: You get a whole bunch of little baskets to arrange these flowers in. You have a basket for roses, another for lilies, one more for daffodils etc. You might choose to have smaller baskets for red roses, pink roses and so on... Each basket is a Folder.
Filter approach: You put all the flowers in a magic box. The magic box shows you what you want. If you say "red flowers", it will show you all the red roses, lilies etc. If you say "lilies", it will only show you lilies. If you say "yellow daffodils", it will only show you those. Each request you make to the magic box is a Filter.
You can imagine the power of the magic box in the Filter approach (M2) compared to the set of baskets in the Folder approach (your garden-variety
mail client). Since the magic box does not have little baskets inside, it is wrong to call Filters as Folders.
WIDGETIZE
James # 10. May 2004, 19:38
Neeraj Deshmukh # 10. May 2004, 19:38
And not too silly when people can't tell the difference between boxes and baskets -- that was kinda the point of the analogy, wasn't it?
Thanks for your comment.
Skarkon # 10. May 2004, 19:38
Bertrum # 10. May 2004, 19:38
greenwood # 10. May 2004, 19:38
A file can be contained in more than one folder in most systems (think shortcuts).
A filter in M2 is just a View in all other email programs. Theres nothing new about this and the M2 implementation is one of the worse.
Compare trying to create some standard views in Outlook Express (yuck) with creating the same in M2. I can't even apply the filter to a set of data, you have to tell the filter not to use certain data. Its a total mess...
Neeraj Deshmukh # 10. May 2004, 19:38
None of Sent, Received, Filters, Contacts etc are folders. A folder, by Windows terminology, is a container of documents. None of the aforementioned actually contain your messages. They are simply a way of looking at a selected portion of the total mailbase, which is the only container of all your messages (technically speaking, Opera does use folders for disk storage of messages, but that is not the point of this discussion -- you never have to see the disk storage to view your messages).
A file may have shortcuts in other folders, but the file is not contained in them. Your statement holds weight if your filesystem was a single dump of files and every folder on your disk only contained shortcuts, not otherwise.
Explain to me how Views in other email clients are the same as Filters in M2, please. IMO that is not at all the case, but I am willing to be convinced.
As far as applying filters in M2, I have found it quite easy. If you cannot apply the filter appropriately, maybe you should read the filter guide and/or post on the forums for help -- there are many people (including myself) who will gladly help you.
Mel B. # 10. May 2004, 19:38
Now in M2 I didn't know what to do with this Cingular e:mail (that I might need in the future). There's no folder to put it in. Since I haven't written back to Cingular the e:mail didn't require a response), Cingular is not a contact, for me to create a view through them). How can I keep track of this e:mail, if I need it at a later date. I labeled it important, but those labels (imporant) might pile up.
Is what you're suggesting for M2 really that different from other mail programs. Example. If I left everything that I wanted to preserve in my in-box in another mail program, but simply copied the files from here to other folders (kept the original in the in-box), that would be somewhat analogous (would it not),to M2 (which does have a "received" folder for everything received that I choose to keep/haven't erased), and then gives you views (like copies????) of that received folder from certain different places (such as through your contacts).
Now M2 lets you view those e:mail in the received folder either directly through it), or through other views (such as a person's contacts). If in another mail program, I left everything in the in-box, and simply copied what I wanted to other folders, the result would be similar to what M2 is doing, except I'D HAVE CONTROL over the "views/folders" I wanted.
I mean really, isn't the diference between a view and a folder (where I've made a copy of an original that I'm keeping in an in-box) really semantics.
The difference seems to be that M2 creates the views for me (said another way, does the filing). Still, I might like to file something myself, because I might think of a view I'd prefer (that I could do better than M2).
Maybe, I'd like to create file labeled "business," to wit, call it a "business" view, if you will. Can't seem to do that with M2.
I can label it important. Or "To do." I can write back to Cingular and make them a contact (thereby having a view of the memo when I click on Cingular as a contact).
But maybe, I don't want a specific folder/view for Cingular. I know I won't be dealing with them enough. One folder labelled "business" (call it a "business" view, if you will) might be sufficient. And I'd like to copy the e:mail there, or create a "view" there.
I don't think I can in M2. Similarly, I might want to create (in another mail program) an "art" folder, a "poetry" folder, a "France" folder,a "politics" folder, etc. In other words, in M2 terminology, I'd like to create an "art" view, a "poetry" view, a "France" view, a "politics" view, with all of the e:mail I've received and haven't erased, showing up in the appropriate view that it fits in.
Each person knows the views/folders they might create based on their own interests. Some of these views would be broader than mere contacts.
What I'm saying is if in another mail program, I left everything I wanted to preserve in my in-box, and simply copied the memos to folders, the in-box would be analogous to M2s "received" category or originals. What the first poster called the magic box. The difference with M2 is that it does a lot of the filing (creating of views, if you will) for me automatically That's a help. Makes my life in some ways easier. At times.
But sometimes, I might like to create a file that works for me, myself. And I know how broad to make it to help me. I know what my interests are. M2 doesn't seem to give me enough flexibility there.
Still, I'm a beginner with this program. Perhaps, I don't fully understand it. But I'm saying if I want to create views broader than mere contacts, but narrower/more precise than "important," "To Do," "Funny," etc. How do I do it. Maybe I want that "politics" view, or the "poetry," view, or the "France" view, because I have a lot of correspondence in those areas.
Can I be creative with M2 to accomplish that? At this point I'm just not sure.
As for the search feature, that I've heard is supposed to help a lot, some of the comments written on the bulletin board here is that it doesn't work well, gets messed up after only so much e:mail is received, and continually has to be recalibrated. It sounds like the search function is no answer to my concern. (Furthermore, other mail programs also have "search features") (and they may work better than M2s, as I'm not hearing the complaints about them as I'm am regarding M2s).
Still, to return to my original thought. How do I create the views (whatever someone else might call folders, because I think this is a bit of a semantics game) that I want. Because whether they're views or folders I need categories that I can create, and that are broader than mere contacts, but narrower than "important," "funny," etc, categories that work for me. Because I know myself and my needs better than the programmers of M2 do.
Mel B. # 10. May 2004, 19:38
I realize now that I can use filters to create views broader than my mere contacts, which addresses quite a few of the concerns in my post above.
Still, I think it would help if we could drag the link to some e:mail from the magic box (the Received Box or the Send Box), to a Contact or Active Contact, so as to have a view there (in case where M2 doesn't give us a view there). It would be what I would call a "saving" feature.
That could help where the software somehow doesn't put the link there when it should (to address a software glitch (not unheard of) or we would prefer that it did (because for our purposes the Contact would be a useful place for us to have the view of the e:mail in question. For example if I have a contact who is a philospher, I might find helpful having a view of an e:mail discussing his philosphy with this conctact also, even if the philospher himself was not a party to the e:mail. Yes, I could create a separate filter, but maybe I'd prefer the view also with the contact. Why not let me customize here.
Perhaps, we can exchange views on this further. Still, thank you so much for taking the time to help on this program!
I agree with you that the M2 mail program is fascinating in concept. And I love the way M2 is integrated into the Opera browser. Being less further along than you in experience with it, I'm still trying to get a sense of whether it can work for me, will it put e:mail in the views it's supposed to (particularly since in doesn't easily let me fix things through a simple drag).
sg2001 # 5. November 2005, 08:32
Neeraj Deshmukh # 8. November 2005, 16:58
If you delete a message, it is gone. It is no longer available from any view. If you do not want a message to appear in a particular view, then you should set that filter's view options accordingly, not delete the message.
You can remove a message from a custom filter by selecting that message in that view and pressing Ctrl+X (or right-click on it > Remove from view).
To remove a message from a built-in filter such as Received, you need to firat place the message in a custom filter, set the custom filter properties to 'mark messages as read' and disable 'View > Show > Show filtered' for the display of the Received filter.
Note that typically, Received is not meant to be used as the place where you regularly go to read your message, but it is more like the general storage of all incoming messages. You should have Unread and other custom filters to read messages from.
JSJAG # 1. February 2006, 14:15
Filters seem to act like a virtual folder, in the tree, of a traditional e-mail client.
Neeraj Deshmukh # 1. February 2006, 17:33
experttease # 20. January 2007, 02:41
thanks,
ian
Neeraj Deshmukh # 22. January 2007, 17:14
As to keeping the messages as Unread upon arrival, you can disable 'Mark matching messages as read' in the filter properties (right-click the filter name in the Mail panel, select Properties and then go to the Rules pane).
basho # 8. May 2007, 10:38
i haven't been able to find any answers to the following situation i am having with opera-mail, maybe you would help me out?
i have one pop account at the isp, one user name one password.
i have 5 different mail aliases:
111@xyz.com
222@xyz.com
etc.
the webhost for xyz.com forwards the mails to the isp account.
using kmail i was able to create accts for the 5 aliases.
this allowed me to reply to a msg that was sent to say 222@xyz.com
with the outgoing msg from header as 222@xyz.com
with opera, as i see it, the outgoing msg header cannot be changed so my outgoing msg from header is always 111@xyz.com.
how can i change that so the FROM header reflects the same email address as the TO header?
............
i've read the tutorials etc,. what am i missing?
thanx
robert
Neeraj Deshmukh # 8. May 2007, 15:01
basho # 10. May 2007, 10:36
i have tried that.
however, when i download the mail from the isp, i get a page full of errors to the effect that the mail box is locked. (i go to the same isp account for each alias)
if i create an account for each alias without specifying the pop.xxxx.com or a mail.xxxx.com, operamail keeps looking for something to connect to. it works that way but it is a bit messy.
thanx
basho