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Noah Counte

Hanging around in a one horse town

The Vice Presidential Debates, and Other Stuff

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The Debate


Last Thursday, Vice Presidential Candidates Sen. Joe Biden and Gov. Sarah Palin debated in St. Louis. I wasn't going to blog about it, but I find it's stuck in my craw so firmly that I'm on my second VP post. And, the second Presidential debate is slated for Tuesday, so I'd better get this out of my system now.

Hopefully, I'll make my observations brief (always questionable to make such statements before I start writing).


First, it really wasn't a debate, was it? Right out of the box, Gov. Palin told Sen. Biden, the moderator, Gewn Ifill, and the American people that she wasn't going to answer the questions, she was going to make speeches to the American people. And that's just what she did. Time and again, she talked about energy policy, regardless of the content of the question. She spoke in full sentences, she spoke passionately, and she flirted mercilessly with us (I don't know about you, but she winked at me four times!), but she didn't answer questions. She pointed the finger at Sens. Obama/Biden, but she never responded to statements about Sen. McCain's policies, or viting record. To me, it was completely unsatisfying, and it's why I say Sen. Biden won the debate. He's the only one who debated. I've read enough to know that, gosh, she was darned endearing to some folks out there, but she completely alienated me with her unwillingness to play the game.

I saw a clip of Brian Williams on the Letterman Show. His wife equated the debate with a children's play date: you have another kid over to play with your little bundle of joy, and one plays with Legos while the other plays with blocks. They're in the same room, so technically, they are playing together, but really, they are engaging in seperate activities. So it was with the debate.

Expectations were so low for Gov. Palin that some people give her a victory simply for not screwing up. That America lets politicians and handlers redefine failure as success bothers me no end.

Sen. Biden, for his part, failed to live down to expectations, either. Known as a masterful debater who sometimes doesn't stop talking when he should, ran up against the end of his time less often than did Gov. Palin, and never put his foot in his mouth. He knew the material, spoke clearly, and didn't fall into pontificating endlessly.

I hate that this post is mostly about Gov. Palin, but golly, both her tactics and the content she came armed with bothered me. *wink*

I was bothered the Sen Biden didn't call her when she chided him for looking to the past. Her premise was that you can't talk about change while looking to the past. Sen. Biden, of course, was tying Sen. McCain to eight years of policies of President Bush. McCain has tried hard to coopt the idea of change as his own, and to discredit the idea, Sen. Biden drew comparisons to the past. If you represent more of the same, you ain't about change. Gov. Palin was acting as though Sen. Biden was comparing them to the Polk administration, for goodness' sake.

The reason I was bothered that Sen. Biden didn't call her on it, is because she continually was harkened back to the Reagan Era, which is even further in the past than the current Bush Era. She even quoted Reagan from a 1980 debate with President Carter: "say it ain't so, Joe, 'there you go again.'" "There you go again" was the Reagan reference. "Say it ain't so, JOe" is a reference to the Black Socks and Shoeless Joe Jackson, who threw a World Series game for money. As a side note, there is irony in the fact that President Reagan represents the death of traditional Republican fiscal conservativism, and that the first President Bush called him on it in the 1980 Presidential debates - remember the phrase "voodoo economics?" When Ronald Reagan took office, the public debt stood at $712 billion. By the time twelve years of Republican Presidencies had passed (two Reagan terms, and one Bush 41 term), it had increased more than 400 percent to $3.2 trillion. President Clinton's swa a much more modest increase of $70 billion in eight years, or 2%. When the current administration took over, the public debt stood at $3.3 trillion. This year, it is $5.4 trillion, an increase of 64%. I don't know how we can afford tax cuts, huge war spending, bailouts of Wall Street and Detroit, and who knows what other industries, while continuing to fund education and care of our seniors (let alone the care we should be providing to the neediest among us). That Republicans continue to claim the mantle of fiscal responsibility makes my blood boil. There may be some out there, but the only ones in Congress who consistently come close to fiscal conservativism are the Blue Dog Coalition Democrats. While I'm thinking about it, how did a $700 billion bailout that didn't pass the House go to the Senate, have $150 Billion in "sweeteners" and pork added, and then go back to the House to get passed as a $700 billion bill? It's no wonder we're bailing them out - nobody up there can do simple addition.

Anyway, to get back to the debate, Gov. Palin may have put the ball in play, but she didn't knock it out of the park. The difference in temperment, preparation and knowledge point to Biden as a better choice for Vice President, and to Obama's better judgment on the subject. Which leads me to a couple of other points...

The Other Stuff


The McCain campaign is pulling out of Michigan. Three weeks ago, they thought it was winnable, now it seems beyond salvage. This puts immense pressure on McCain to win Florida or Pennsylvania (Florida looks like a toss up at the moment, and Pennsylvania seems to be leaning towards Obama), plus Minnesota, Indiana, Wisconsin, Missouri and Nevada, all of which were won by George Bush in 2004, and all of which currently seem to be toss ups. Which means that the polling is all wrong, Obama could win by a landslide, or some catastrophic even will come along to derail Sen. Obama in the manner that the economy has derailed Sen. McCain.

In order to take voters' minds off the economy, the McCain camp has today promised to go negative for the rest of the race. There was a lot of negative campaigning prior to this weekend, but news accounts today suggest that almost all of McCains remaining budget will fund negative ads. It's all Sen. Obama's fault, of course, for not agreeing to ten town hall type debates. The new negative ads are already airing and Gov. Palin is the attack dog, tying Sen. Obama to Bill Ayers, a 60s radical who belonged to a group that built bombs, one of which killed a police officer. Obama and Ayers live in the same neighborhood, and sit on a charity board together. There's no evidence that they pal around, but with 13% of the population still believing that he's a Muslim, and worse, that being Muslim makes him unfit to be President, it's a sure bet that someone will belive that Sen. Obama is somehow implicated in the bombing of police when he was four or five years old. Batten down the hatches, it's going to get ugly.

If you remember the first Presidential debate, Sen. McCain accused Sen. Obama of not knowing the difference between tactics and strategy. Sadly, the McCain Presidential run these past several weeks has been all about tactics, and not at all about stragey. (Strategy has to do with your plans, while tactics have to do with your actions - what will you do to make your plans work?). The problem is, you have to have a stategy in order to have effective tactics. McCain planned to debate, suspended his campaign, tried to move the debate, went to Washington, finally changed his mind and went to the debate, tried to undermine the moderator of the Vice Presidential debate (probably the only successful tactic in the lot) in order to make Gov. Palin's task easier, and the list goes on. None of this activity moved him in towards his goal, because none of it was tied together with a strategy.

Gosh, I'm darned longwinded.

What does a Vice President Do?Graphic Thoughts

Comments

daxonmacs 5. October 2008, 04:50

As for the debate, the moderator and crew should have acted and or interfered. A debate does not equal free advertising time. Cut her mic and keep her out of sight. Biden may have speculated on the viewers critical view and mind when not pointing those things out.
On the other hand tv is a dangerous medium and surely she masters appearance on screen. Heck she even winked at you Matt. :D
The negative ads always bothered me for as much as american political campaigns are concerned.
Tactics and strategy, I know only of chess, where the most succesful party is the one with good strategical view and tactical knowledge, that supports this strategy, not going astrain for a tactical blow blowing up the original plan.
The fact that the Republican camp is twisting and turning their asses all the time may be an indication they lack the commitment needed.
May the gale winds find their holes.

Once again nice post, good rambling :up:

Aadil 5. October 2008, 07:54

For my comments, please refer to everyone elses blog on this subject :lol:

Matthew 5. October 2008, 13:26

Hahaha. I had to give up reading them, Qlue. I don't know why I figured writing about it was a good idea. It was just festering away inside me.

Donny 5. October 2008, 17:17

It's a good post Matt, I liked it, so it has to be a good idea :smile:

I like the way you present these news, so you are keeping me up to speed with the elections :wink:

Negative ads are simply horrible. It's crap to allow anyone to do that.

And daxon is right, they should have penalized the girl for not answering questions. On the other hand most politicians don't really answer questions, instead they ramble for a while about something.
But then again - she did say what she will do, and that is totally not right. If she hasn't most people would think she has idiot answers. Now they know she is also rude and changes the rules as she sees fit. For the love of crackers.

And I really can't believe how those debt are getting bigger all the time. No wonder USA is rich. It has everyones money.

daxonmacs 5. October 2008, 20:17

:lol:

Matthew 6. October 2008, 02:26

Hockey mom gets two minutes in the penalty box!

Thanks for the comments, Donny.

Tyler Parke Young 6. October 2008, 14:35

Obama is going to win. He has to. If by some horrible mischance, Palin became president, the shit would literally hit the fan.:alien:

Edward Piercy 6. October 2008, 15:45

I didn't watch the VP debate, but I did watch the one on Saturday Night Live.

"Whaaat the hail????" -- Joe Sixpack.

Matthew 6. October 2008, 16:38

According to one conservative commentator, Joe Sixpack will vote for Palin because she did some "man straightening" during the debate. Apparently, the activity that the Christian right is most excited about used to take place while watching porn, and now takes place while watching debates.

Naomi 6. October 2008, 16:40

OMG, will have to read this extremely long but I am sure extremely insightful post when I have time.

Can't wait to see the Presidential debate tomorrow night.

Did anyone else do shots each time Palin said "maverick"? It was briefly considered among the audience I watched with.

Edward, you didn't miss that much. The SNL skit pretty much summed up the reality (except they forgot to make fun of Palin saying "nucular.")

Tyler Parke Young 6. October 2008, 16:53

Was that a skit? Hell, I thought that was the debate!:lol:

Naomi 6. October 2008, 17:07

Still reading but I have to post this quote I just saw on the London Times:

"Sarah Palin revealed the intellect and political experience of a whelk."

Not sure what a "whelk" is, but I can imagine. :lol:

Edward Piercy 6. October 2008, 17:09

Isn't it like some sort of deer?

Naomi 6. October 2008, 17:10

Oh, Jeff tells me a whelk is a snail. No clue how the heck (to use a Palinism) he knew that.

Tyler Parke Young 6. October 2008, 17:12

A "whelk"? It is probably somesort of herd animal that is incredibly stupid. I am just guessing here tho. I will ask Skip, he will know.
:coffee:

Donny 6. October 2008, 17:34

She is just one of those obiously contradictory people who try to promote strong Christian values, yet try to look as atractive as she can (provoking undesireable thoughs), likes to shot stuff, has a kid who does things out of marriage, and now that she is very pregnant they are suposed to get married?
And people just don't get it, that she is saying one thing, and does soemthing else. Because she looks good, then everything she says is ok. My, my, what a great social system.

Tyler Parke Young 6. October 2008, 17:38

Don't worry, people see that she is a witch. Obama shall prevail, and the witch will have to go back to Alaska.:yes:

Matthew 6. October 2008, 17:51

Whelk. LMAO Golly, that Jeff is a sharp cookie!

Some people see she's a witch. Other still see her as the savior of the party (if not the free world).

Tyler Parke Young 6. October 2008, 17:53

Hi Matt. I am goofing off today.:coffee:

Matthew 6. October 2008, 17:57

Hi Tyler, I've been to the unemployment office, where I had to answer multiple choice questions about simple statements and math problems. w00t!

Tyler Parke Young 6. October 2008, 18:03

Oh yeah, ain't it great? Don't let it get you down, it's all just a game.:coffee:

Matthew 6. October 2008, 18:14

Yeah. There are a lot of people playing, all of a sudden :frown:

Edward Piercy 6. October 2008, 18:58

I hope the math wasn't story problems. :down: :down: :down:



Tyler Parke Young 6. October 2008, 20:45

Those always confuse me.:no:

Naomi 6. October 2008, 21:06

Whether or not she is a witch, I cannot say. But she has been most definitely blessed by an exorcist (and it seems to be working if they think she is so cute & qualified):
http://my.opera.com/CultureSurfer/blog/palin-blessed-by-an-exorcist

Matt, hope the job search starts looking up. What happened with the job you were interested in?

Tyler Parke Young 6. October 2008, 21:10

I think she is a witch in the worst sense of the word. She used the power of her public office to try to destroy somebody, just because she did not like them. She needs to go back to Alaska and stay there.

Angeliki 6. October 2008, 22:20

she is not a witch , she is not a savior,

she is a tool that republicans needed to throw mad...
they had a tool called G.W.B. for eight years for other dirty jobs...:smile:






Matt good Luck with the job hunting,
I am glad the questions were not on politics and you got out of there on time for lunch...
*hugs*

Naomi 6. October 2008, 22:24

I vote we send her to Siberia. It's colder. p:

Angeliki 6. October 2008, 22:26

not Siberia!!! she could see Alaska from there! :lol:

Edward Piercy 6. October 2008, 22:27

The Chukchi would consider her totally useless.

So...

Tyler Parke Young 6. October 2008, 22:31

The US needs to find our own "Maggie Thatcher". When that happens, then we will have a woman to be president.

Angeliki 6. October 2008, 22:38

yes, we will replace the "winking lady" with an "iron lady " :lol:

Actually Margaret Thacher would have had my vote,
she knew her facts!

Matthew 7. October 2008, 02:19

I liked Thatcher at the time. Too close to Reagan for me, in retrospect.

Naomi, I have an interview for the job I'd like, but not until the 21st. Things move slowly - painfully slowly - in academia.

Angeliki - the questions were things like 20% of the students drink chocolate milk. How many students drink chocolate milk?

A. 1/7
B. 3/10
C. 1/5
D. 13

It must have something to do with employment (or unemployment), but I don't know what.

Angeliki 7. October 2008, 03:00

Matt when chocolate is involved,it always brings me luck! I hope it does to you too! :heart:

in this case I will also go with C for chocolate :smile:

Matthew 7. October 2008, 03:46

Hahah. Wise choice.

On a more serious note, some Chicago Republicans are not on board the campaign of smearing Obama with William Ayers:

Regardless of his background, it was never a problem for anyone — including Republicans and Chicago's most powerful business leaders — to work with Ayers on Chicago's public schools. In fact, Ayers is widely respected in the field of urban education.

"It was never a concern by any of us in the Chicago school reform movement that he had led a fugitive life years earlier," said former Illinois state Republican Rep. Diana Nelson, who worked with both Obama and Ayers over the years. "It's ridiculous. There is no reason at all to smear Barack Obama with this association. It's nonsensical, and it just makes me crazy. It's so silly." http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95442902.



Of course, the education fund they worked together on was funded by Republican Water Annenberg.

Edward Piercy 7. October 2008, 11:46

The cost of the price of tea in China is

A. $1.15
B. $1.85
C. $2.10
D. $2.85

And if you get the answer right, you get to play for a 6-week extension of your benefits and a new jet-ski.



Matthew 7. October 2008, 13:05

w00t! Watersports for the unemployed!

Tyler Parke Young 7. October 2008, 19:30

The answer is 1/5 of the students are dweebs.:lol:

Matthew 7. October 2008, 19:38

Chocolate milk pwns! :lol:

Naomi 7. October 2008, 19:47

@Edward :lol:

@Angeliki, Woman! You are obsessed with chocolate! :lol: p: (One of the best obsessions I can think of)

@Matt
GOOD luck with that interview, it sucks that things are moving so slowly.

Ok kids, on a serious note.
People in the Jewish community (not only in St. Louis) are spreading some nasty crap rumors about Barack being connected to Louis Farrakhan. I am so mad! It's an attempt to undermine typically the Jewish support for democrats. Jerks.

Tyler Parke Young 7. October 2008, 21:22

The Muslims control most of the South Side of Chicago. If you live there, you have to deal with them. It is just stupid.:down:

Angeliki 8. October 2008, 04:48

it is just a rumor and
it will melt away Naomi,
like a chocolate kiss on your pallet...have no worries, it will melt away.:smile:

Tyler Parke Young 8. October 2008, 13:16

The debate last night was lame. I am sure that most people have made up their minds by now anyway.:coffee:

Naomi 8. October 2008, 14:23

McCain put me to sleep last night. Literally. I told Jeff we should record his voice to help me fall asleep at night & he said no. :rolleyes: :lol:

Tyler Parke Young 8. October 2008, 14:54

I watched the last half of it while I played a computer game. That is how I was able to stay awake to the end.:cool:

Matthew 8. October 2008, 15:53

I listened on the radio, and I thought they were both mediocre. The focus groups led by the networks disagreed with me, though - all three gave it to Obama - including FOX.

Tyler Parke Young 8. October 2008, 15:56

Obama was slightly better, but it still was lame.:down:

Matthew 8. October 2008, 16:05

I did like Obama's retort when McCain used "He just doesn't get it" again (note to debaters: if you have to do more than one debate, don't feed your opponent the same line again.

Obama's reply was "you know what I don't get? I don't get why we started a war in Iraq, when all the people responsible for 9/11 were in Afghanistan," or something similar. He turned it around very effectively. High point of the whole 90 minutes, if you ask me. Well, that and McCain's hasty exit. The Obamas were in the audience shaking hands afterwards, and the McCains beat a hasty retreat.

You can learn a lot from things that have nothing to do with the questions/answers.

Naomi 8. October 2008, 16:30

FOX said Obama won? Wow, there must be a revolution underway! :lol:

Obama is holding back, I think. Perhaps they both are.

I'm gonna puke the next time I hear "My friends..." :yuck: But at least Palin ruined the term "maverick" for McCain. :yes:

Angeliki 8. October 2008, 17:39

Matt,
you will be pleasantly surprised to see something that radio couldn't provide .
The body language of Barack
when McCain played the nasty finger pointing,
he was posed,
his face was like saying
"do you really have to go there ??"
and the whole stage presentation was superb on his part.
I love radio ,
I always did ,
but sometimes a picture speaks a thousand words :smile:Last night it did!!:yes:

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