Noah Counte

Cool! There is music for everything!

Pretty funny that the Denny's person would tell you to go get your Starbuck's free coffee.

I hope to never have another voting day like this again. It's been an emotional roller-coaster.

We woke up at 5:30 & were waiting in a line of about 200 people by 5:45. Jeff had to leave the line to get to work & will return to the polls after work (with a chair in tow). I finally voted at 8:00.

I then came home & took a shower & went to the funeral of the police officer I knew who was murdered Friday night. There were police departments in attendance from all over this area. I watched his wife & his parents follow his coffin out of the church. It was overwhelming to be there & I feel exhausted from crying.

So I am distracting myself with Opera and the election. I just found out where the big Obama party is tonight & a friend wants me there, so we will attempt to go if Jeff gets done voting before midnight (I'm joking, I hope). I am sure it will be exciting to be at this party, back among politicians I haven't seen for a while, surrounded by people who agree with what I believe in.

I hope I have reason, in the midst of my grief, to celebrate tomorrow.

I hear that my 5 year-old nephew made up a song about the candidates. I will post it if he sings it to me & I think it merits posting.

I hope Jeff gets out of school early enough to beat the crush of after-work voters, Naomi. I think we'll see unprecedented numbers of voters. I HOPE we'll see unprecedented numbers of voters.

Limbaugh and friends are reporting that there were Black Panthers with billy clubs "guarding" the polls in Philadelphia. They made it sounds like a militia of armed militants, but the report I located, on a right-wing blog, said it was two guys at one polling place. I guess we'll see if more is made of it.

I drove Tina around while she asked people to vote (she went by herself, but was lost before she knocked on her first door. So, she came to get me to driver her around, which I did. She didn't catch many people home, but those she did talk to said they had already voted, and all of them cast votes for Obama. Whoda thunk it?

Indiana's polls start closing at 6PM eastern time, I think. Most of the State's polls close at 7 PM, though. It's weird to be closer to the middle of the country than the east coast, and still have the polls that close the earliest in the country.

I'm trying to figure out how I feel. In 2004, I was hopeful on election night and devastated the next day. I think my hope borders on desperate this year. I hate to think of the possibility of an Obama loss.

I hope we see/hear the song.

I'm sorry about your friend. I hope the service gives the community a bit of solace.

Jeff didn't have to wait at all! Weird. They told him normally they get 500 people in a day & they'd already had 900 at this polling station as of 3:00. Cool.

A piece of good news: They just captured the killer outside of Kansas City. I can breathe a little better now. I'm glad they caught him the day of Mike's funeral.

Off to the Obama party tonight. I may take the video camera.

I'm glad they captured him.

Have fun at the party - I hope it's a victory party!

Jeff came up a winner. I am glad of that.

Yes, Mom, there's music for everything.

all our eyes are on Indiana at this time ,
the first numbers are about to be coming to CNN,
please give my warmest thanks to Tina for her contribution

She's asleep. She wakes up every hour or so to ask how it's going.

Nate Silver is projecting 353-163 in favor of Obama, with 22 too close to call (including Indiana).

Indiana seems to have a lot of split tickets. Our Republican governor (Bush's first term finance chief) has won reelection with more than 60 percent of the vote, but Obama has closed to dead even.

give her a hug when she wakes up

Looks like McCain got Indiana. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032553

Yea!

Indiana trended towards McCain all night, until the very end. Yea, us! And by us, I mean US!

w00t!

Matt, what suggestions do you have for our new president? What's the first thing he should tackle?

Personally, I think he needs to do something about the economy - maybe get the out of control Repubs to rewrite that $700 billion bailout, cut out all the pork spending, and make them pay the government and the taxpayers back, then start working on a plan to get us out of Afghanistan and Iraq.

Missouri is still not declared! Argh! That means it's darn close. Thank God Missouri's outcome isn't deciding the outcome of this election. I am still hoping we turn blue because we have been red WAY too long.

At least we finally have a Democratic governor after years of a seriously damaging Republican governor.

Something else interesting for Missouri:
Senator Claire McCaskill, whose campaign I was on in 2006, has been a close adviser to Obama & may be asked to join his cabinet. IF she takes the position, our Secretary of State, Robin Carnahan, could be appointed to take Claire's senate seat. If that happens, we will have Robin Carnahan in the US senate & Russ Carnahan (I was on his campaign in 2004), her brother, in the US Congress. How wild would that be?

My nephew sang his McCain song to me last night on the phone. To paraphrase:
"McCain is an old man and he is going in the trash can (or, this part has more than one rendition) he is going in the dinosaur's mouth."

I've been thinking about where Obama goes first, Babs. I hope he's smarter than me, because it seems awfully daunting. I think I'll write a post about where we are and what lies ahead. I'll probably be wrong on every count, too.

We were red in every presidential election since 1964, Naomi. we are still very red when it comes to our governor, which means a huge number of people split their tickets. That's OK. I don't like the governor much, but split tickets mean (I think) that people were thinking when they made their choices.

Poilitics are strange indeed, Naomi. The Udalls, Goldwaters and McCains are all old friends, and none of them sees eye-to-eye politically. Must make for interesting barbecues!

I was so disappointed in GA. Nearly the entire state voted red, including one of my brothers. He told my oldest brother not to even stop in for a visit if he voted blue - Guess I'll be driving by his house thumbing my nose! Yay, Obama!

Haha. My family had to tell my brother-in-law to take us off his email list. It's one thing to try to tell us why we're wrong. It's entirely different to use sarcasm and facetiousness to cut people down when your arguments don't work.

That's pretty much all he's good for - He had 2 reasons for not voting for Obama, neither of them worth repeating. It took some convincing, but I talked my mother into voting for Obama - Most of the time I think I must have been adopted.

I'd think my sister was adopted, if I hadn't seen my pregnant mother wheeled into delivery and later come out skinny and holding a baby.

On the other hand, my parents are practical jokers... but that's a pretty elaborate ruse just to fool a six year old into tihnking his little sister didn't come from Mars...

After I had my son, my daughter didn't talk to me for 2 days - She'd gotten used to seeing Mom "fat & happy!"

hahah. I hope mom was less "fat" and still happy after her brother was born?

Ohhh yeah! I was 30 lbs lighter when I left the hospital! Ultrasound never picked it up, so we didn't know what to expect - I got 2 dozen roses from my husband and royal treatment for giving him a boy. My son is the first male born in his family in 25 years. The following year, my brother-in-law's wife had a son - They're the only 2 to carry on the family name.

They're the only 2 to carry on the family name.

That's the kind of pressure that will turn a boy gay. Or sterile.

30 pounds! Holy smokes. I could lose 30 pounds. I wonder what it would feel like to lose it all at once?

Please excuse my ignorance of politics, but would you please tell me what a 'split ticket' is?

In the US general elections, you have the option of voting for any candidate you choose. You can push a button or pull a lever, and cast a vote for all the candidates of one party, or you can select individuals from any party in each race.

In Indiana, Obama (DEM) won the presidential race 51-49 percent, but the Governor's race was won by the Republican, 59-40% That means almost 100,000 voters went for the presidential democrat, but the gubernatorial republican - splitting their ticket.

I guess you didn't vote my way, Matt. lol.

My advice to those of you who are feeling pain over this election is to keep quiet for a bit. It goes away. Maybe the pain can be channeled into something productive. That's what we did, after we came out of our stupor of disbelief and depression.

thanks for the advice... at least you made me chuckle.

If you can chuckle, you're way ahead of some of the McCain supporters around here. I'm still hearing "how can he even be president? The Constitution doesn't let Muslims be president," and "He won't be able to get a security clearance because of his ties to the middle east," and "He's going to take away all your social security, and you'll have to work seven days a week when you're 75."

He can't be worse than Bush, and if he figures out how to end a war, he'll be better than Bush.

At any rate, I hope those who are upset with the Obama victory will give him a chance before they pass judgment. Everyone deserves a chance.

We still use a pencil to make an 'X' in the box next to the photo of the candidate. .
Speaking of voting, this weekend is voter registration in South Africa.

If you can chuckle, you're way ahead of some of the McCain supporters around here. I'm still hearing "how can he even be president? The Constitution doesn't let Muslims be president," and "He won't be able to get a security clearance because of his ties to the middle east," and "He's going to take away all your social security, and you'll have to work seven days a week when you're 75."

They are really saying all that about McCain and voted for him? lol.

The war was necessary, imo. My only concern about the war was hearing that Rummy said something like: this might be a way to get Saddam. I trust Bush used the intelligence he had at the time and made the best decision he could for our country, at the time. He didn't respond rashly after 9/11 either. He waited, I was wondering when in the world he would act.

Lives were lost and this is terribly tragic and sad. But Bush was defending our nation that had been invaded. It may seem a round about way to do it, but so many agree with him, there aren't only accusers, their are his supporters, too.

Hopefully, Obama will handle the real issues and take down the terrorists. There is no need for terrorism in the world, anywhere, anytime. They aren't freedom fighters. He is probably very capable to handle these guys. But then why did his sit under Rev. Wright? Did he have earplugs in?

They are really saying all that about McCain and voted for him? l

Heh. Saying it about Obama, and voted for McCain.

We can agree on the necessity of the war, if we're talking about Afghanistan. If we're talking about Iraq, then I'm still trying to figure out why we're there. The three reasons we were given - and made to be very fearful about - turned out to be puffery, at best, lies at worst. Iraq didn't invade our nation. Al Queda, which did invade our nation, wasn't active in Iraq (though we've since given them a home there).

We can also agree on the fact that terrorism is a blight on the world. I still haven't seen how terrorism and Iraq were connected, and I've looked. I am fearful that "going after terrorists" is a means of justifying collateral damage (that is, civillian deaths). We can be pretty gung ho about chasing religious fundamentailists into someone else's country and bombing them, but we'd be pretty pissed of the Chinese chased the Dali Lama into the US and took out a town - say Bloomington, IN, where he spends a lot of time - because the Chinese classify him as a threat to their national security.

I don't know what Rev. Wright was preaching when Obama sat in his church. What I've seen of him makes him look like a nut job. Obama left that church well before Wright became an issue Sort of like Todd Palin left the Alaska Seccessionist Party. Maybe.

turned out to be puffery

exactly, or shall I say, perhaps were never proven to be true. Saddam Hussein was given every opp. to prove that he was in compliance to the UN Resolution, do people forget this component? Bush acted on the intelligence he had at the time. Which may have been puffery... but what was shared with the public, we all believed, i.e., missiles of mass destruction/buried planes, etc... what would the good of buried planes be, btw!? Why would such a large amount of military persons (68% to 23% Military Times poll reporting October) be in McCain's favour? Why do most of them believe in the cause there? Mustn't we secure the region now, lest the Shiites become too friendly with Iran? The Taliban is taking over Afgh. inch by inch, aren't they? Common target of the enemy: Israel, America, anything western and civiilized talking of freedom. Anything anti-Sharia?

Todd wasn't running for Pres., he isn't under anyone's microscopic scrutiny.

What I've seen of him makes him look like a nut job. Obama left that church well before Wright became an issue

I remember Obama not repudiating anything about Rev. Wright for a long, long time after it came out. Why did Obama distance himself publicly, if he had already distanced himself? The media scrutinized Rev. Wright's rantings in March 2008, Obama withdrew membership in May 2008. The excerpts came from sermons in 2001 and 2003. My nephew met him once and heard him preach a sermon. He said it was really good. He was surprised it turned out to be the same person.

At any rate, it's nice chatting with you, Matt.

Bush acted on the intelligence he had at the time.

There's pretty good evidence now that suggests a) he was mislead by some of the people around him, particularly the VP, and b) decisions made by the administration about how intelligence is reviewed by the Office of the President played into a general paranoia about how rotten and evil the world is. Particularly that, in the past, presidents have been briefed by the CIA and FBI on threats that had been deemed credible after investigation. The Bush Whitehouse, on the other hand, reviewed every threat, credible or not. That is, the list of potential terrorist activities that the Bush administration looked at every morning was much longer and much more heinous than any other list in history. It was also filled with false threats - don't forget, many of those threats came from suspects whom we interrogated using techniques the North Koreans designed to get FALSE sonfessions that they could broadcast as propaganda.

It's all about fear. They made themselves feel it, and they browbeat us with it. A lot - enough to reelect Bush - believed it, but a lot of us did not.

Military leaders wee a little more circumspect about John McCain than were the rank and file. Mostly about his temperment, not his knowledge.

I don't have a clue what should be done about the region (Iraq/Iran) now, Jill. Honestly, we've fractured a whole society that was only kept together by force to begin with. I don't think diplomacy is going to do it, but I don't think brute force will either. Luckily, we declared victory in 2003, so anything that happens now is their fault, not ours. We've been pretty good at redefining defeat as victory.

Afgahnistan? I think that's where we should have been focusing to begin with. You may recall that Osama Bin Ladan was so important we started a war three - but when we decided to go into Iraq, president Bush said that Bin Laden was no longer important. How would wwe know what's important? The reasons and rules keep changing!

Rev. Wright and Bill Ayers weren't running for president either, but we spent a lot of time scrutinizing them because of their association with someone who was. Sarah Palin is married to a guy who was a registered member of the Alaska Independence Party. This is a group that advocates for the secession of Alaska from the US. The leader, Joe Vogler, whom Palin "palled around with" once said "My government is my worst enemy. I'm going to fight them with any means at hand." He carried a weapon at all times and openly threatened to shoot federal agents. This is a guy who stood before the UN in 1991 and denounced US tyranny, demanding Alaska's freedom. Guess who sponsored his speech? Iran, a country which American were not permitted to contact since the Carter/Rreagan hostage crisis in 1979 without being legally defined as terrorists.

The problem with pointing fingers with regards to your opponents associations is that you never know what the associations are of your friends - until after people start shining the light on you.

The pleasure is mine, Jill. Thanks for stopping by

You seem to know a lot, although I haven't checked your facts... I'll take you at your word presently and say, you should start your own radio program. For the record, I'm not pointing fingers, just basing my vote on what I have heard, believe to be true, who corresponds with my values, who I deem to be 'safe' and wise, faithful and true. Many things are stated, but of late, I never heard Sarah palling around with anyone like that, Obama baby was sitting in the pew very recently.

general paranoia about how rotten and evil the world is

9/11 was an evil deed demanding a response, we were responding to evil, I believe... it certainly wasn't benevolent. We can argue intelligence until we are blue in the face, bottom line, whom do you trust? I trusted Bush and his judgment, I really did. I don't remember Bush ever saying bin Laden was irrelevant. And going into Iraq was based upon the intelligence at the time... we were told. Item by item we could talk of that intel., if both of us have the time.

until after people start shining the light on you.

We all fall short, the question is what side are you on when you crawl into bed and crawl out in the morning? Sarah has my vote. I haven't a clue what Obama stands for (change?) and I certainly don't trust his associations (Did you hear Medved today?) or his self agrandizement in the statement he made that I already shared. He lost my vote on that page years ago, before I ever knew he'd run for Pres.; had McCain/Palin not garnered my trust, I would have sat at home on 11/4 and not voted. http://blog.360.yahoo.com/blog-I.nRaEcibq_IXfoHHEUn?p=650

You know anyone can back a person into a corner with 'facts' but are they true? We are all presented with facts, and we can research more and more and more... which I will continue to do as a citizen here (plus, it interests me) however... we go with our gut, we vote our conscience, we hope we get what we think we are getting... now that Obama has been elected, I hope he is a good man and will do what is in the best interests of the citizens of this country, I hope for no corruption. People also vote, not just on the 'state of the nation' but on their personal notions or values, I would call this voting your conscience. Frankly, although I'm broke (among other things... my van is totaled, I'm driving a vehicle with no heat and it's COLD BRrr, Joe was laid off, etc., etc., I could care less about the economy... personally, I could care less. And I have every reason to care.) I care about terror, abortion, gay marriage, and border control. My issues. And the integrity of the person running. I believed McCain/Palin to have more.

Tit for tat, issue by issue? I'm pretty stubborn, my heels are pretty dug in. I doubt you could move me. On anything. I doubt Obama could, either. But, if the facts are proven to me and the integrity piece settles with Obama, we'll see. He certainly has a task ahead of him. I hope for his safety, well-being, health, vitality and decision-making. I hope he trusts those he is appointing. I hope for our sakes he knows what he's doing.

btw, I didn't hear one report on the Palins that you stated above. Why wasn't it plastered everywhere in the mainstream??????? Or was I sleeping that day. I wasn't sleepin' in on the days of Ayers and Wright, though.

Pleasures back atcha, Matt.

Tit for tat, issue by issue? I'm pretty stubborn, my heels are pretty dug in. I doubt you could move me. On anything.

Well, we're even there, then.

The Palin thing was reported, but not as vehemently as the Ayers/Wright thing. The liberal media isn't as liberal as conservatives like to think. lol

Being laid off and broke sucks. I hope Joe finds work - I need some, too.

Well, we're even there, then.

I rarely stick my tongue out at anyone, and when I do, it's in fun. So there!

The liberal media isn't as liberal as conservatives like to think.

yes, it is.

Being laid off and broke sucks. I hope Joe finds work - I need some, too.

thanks, but-- at least the house is getting cleaned. he sits on the kids, I clean or vice versa, before they ran LOOSE! AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! hope you do, too, btw, Hollyhock may need servers, fyi.

Re: the Bible comments you made. I'm glad you like the book. It's more, though, it's a Living Word. Applicable to today, to the individual believer's life. Truly. It is history, poetry, prophecy, but also a living present text for application. Personal application. It's not just doctrine, fact, and parable, too... the words speak to those with ears that hear it. God is the One who opens ears to hear. And causes eyes to see the Truth that sets people free. The translations, let me put it this way... and then if you like I will provide some resources if you are intersted in the educational/intellectual side of it... for example, I have a friend translating into a foreign (not yet translated tongue) they work with the Holy Spirit. They work with some believers indiginous to the region who speak the tongue of the tribe or people, they pray and ask the Holy Spirit to guide them, they work with the greek/hebrew texts... I will write more if you care to hear more, but maybe via email. Some people aren't interested in this sort of thing...

All the tongue sticking on this blog is in fun, I hope.

If the liberal media was as liberal as conservatives like to think it is, then I wouldn't get so pissed off about its conservative bias. Seriously - I am not that liberal, but sometimes the conservative bias bothers me.

I completely agree that the words sleak to those who hear it. The same is true of the Koran, the Tipitaka, Hindu sacred texts, and the Zend Avesta and Pahlavi Texts, among others.

I am glad you have your faith - and glad that I share huge parts of it - and I am glad that you are able to practice it in this, the greatest country on earth. I am glad that people who are equally convinced of the Truth of their own religions have the same rights.

With regards to translations, I just don't understand how it is determined which version/translation is the true Word? Your friend is probably translating from the English. When someone translates from the Hebrew, or the Aramaic, or the Greek, it will probably look different than your friend's translation. Is your friend's translation more right than the other translations? Whenever I think of translations made from translation - and more particularly, versions made to suit changing language usage, I think of that game we played in kindergarten, Telephone, where someone whispered something in the next person's ear, and then that person whispered into the next person's ear, and so on around the room. What came out the far end was always dramatically different than what went in. If God is guiding and correcting along the way, from translation to translation and version to version, doesnt' that mean that hte original texts were not perfect? If the origninal texts were perfect, but differ from current versions/translations, how can the current texts also be perfect?

yes the tongue sticking out is only in fun... The goal of Bible translation is to convey the meaning of the original texts: Greek, Hebrew, you added Aramaic. As I said, they employ these from what I understand and probably also use a reputable English translation. You can go to any translation to read in its forward 'how' it came about and discern for yourself its legitimacy if so inclined. But, truly, Matt, it's different than kindergarten and telephone. I haven't met a kindergartner yet who has translated the Bible. It is serious work and it is God-led. That piece may be harder to explain. But, when one undersands the Word to be the Word of God, John 1:1, one begins to see also, the importance and reasons behind the 'why' of translating. How one dare touch the Hebrew, Greek texts? One does.

Compare for instance John 1:1... in various translations (my faves are NASB, KJV, NLT) the meanings are quite similar, if not def.ly so, but some translations are meant for literal (why I like NASB) and some more a paraphrase, what the intended meaning is... but, remember, it is God-led. Man can be guided by the Holy Spirit now, just as in ancient times... and is.

When one translates to a different tongue, they do so so that the peoples of the tribe/tongue can hear the Word and its content in their language.

If God is guiding and correcting along the way, from translation to translation and version to version, doesnt' that mean that hte original texts were not perfect?

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" (2 Timothy 3:16)

it's different than kindergarten and telephone.

Of course it is. but it's still laden with judgments made by men and women about choice of words. Translation is necesary to convey content to people who speak different languages, but it's not the original, and it necessarily differs from the original. The translation used by Jehovah's Witnesses is the easiest example, but any translation suffers from deviation. It must.

If I read your quote of Timothy correctly, all translations are the Word of God, even when they conflict. I can live with this, but I can't live by a litereral interpretation. My interpretation, then, is guided by God, and is very different from yours, also guided by God, and no less or more valid than my own.

Here's an interesting survey about the breakdown of Christian voters (both pro-Obaba and pro-McCain): http://www.beliefnet.com/News/Politics/2008/11/Beliefnet-Election-2008-Exit-Poll-Results.aspx?p=1

but I can't live by a litereral interpretation. My interpretation, then, is guided by God, and is very different from yours

Matt, I didn't know we'd ever talked about interpretations of any passages... if you aren't a literalist, (I tend to be for the mostpart I'd say) I don't suggest that you aren't guided by God. Or following, for that matter.

not the original, and it necessarily differs from the original

but doesn't deviate from

I'll try to look at the breakdown later.

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that you thought my life isn't guided by God, only that it seems a contradiction in which there are two mutually exclusive Truths.

I hope you haven't lost any sleep over that!

nope.

only that it seems a contradiction in which there are two mutually exclusive Truths

I don't know what you mean here, though.