Opera Mobile

Thanks for info.

Yeda_anna writes: Thanks a lot for clearing doubts regarding symbian version of opera mobile ! ! ! Hope we do not have to wait too much. i am dying to surf web through opera 9.5 on my nokia E62. Well, meantime i am trying to implement .net framework on my symbian device so as to run opera.exe for windows mobile.

Dave writes: Fhauge,thanks for the update. Regarding the upcoming Windows Mobile beta, will Opera Mobile be rolling out a beta for Windows Mobile 6 standard devices?

Thank you for the update. I'm only sad that the Symbian version will take some time to come. I'd prefer that it would be the first to come.

You r great. Thanx opera for ur response. You rock. But be quick in s60 version.

Anarion writes: This is good new but I would really love to see Symbian beta release this month.

The most common operating systems (OS) used in smartphones are:
Symbian OS from Symbian Ltd. (65% Market Share Sales Q4 2007)
Windows Mobile from Microsoft (12% Market Share Sales Q4 2007)
RIM BlackBerry operating system (11% Market Share Sales Q4 2007)
iPhone OS from Apple Inc. (7% Market Share Sales Q4 2007)
Linux operating system (5% Market Share Sales Q4 2007)
Palm OS developed by PalmSource (now a subsidiary of ACCESS).

(Source)

65% vs 12%
And I wonder why you release Windows Mobile version first...

Anonymous writes: maybe because they can essentially do a beta similiar to Skyfire. With 12% getting the first beta release, then beta 2 going out to Symbian. Maybe they just want to control the first beta with less downloads and get a better product developed going forward. Not sure why they need to do this since it has been 2 years since the last upgrade but who knows.

While i appreciate this attempt to make things more clear, it still leaves questions to answer. Why this delay when we already have seen opera 9.5 running on symbian devices, namely the sony ericsson p1 and two sony ericsson prototypes, paris (p5) and beibei (g702). The videos from 3gsm show the p1 running the browser and widgets platform, without visible problems. Regarding beibei, a friend of mine bought one from a tester, and he says, again, opera 9.5 and widgets are running fine (might get a video of it soon). So WHY Opera, WHY this discriminations when the symbian version was already in good state for a beta?? We are waiting

I'm happy now all I wanted to know was that it'd happen eventually..

Many thanks fhauge

Anonymous writes: Er, NO Opera mini ISNT an alternative to Opera Mobile 9.5 -.- Guys, don't fool your self: It's like comparing Windows Mobile IE to iPhone Safari...

Thanks for the info dude.
*disarms the suicide monkeys*

Anonymous, Opera Mini is a great alternative to ANY browser, especially one that hasn't been released yet. And seriously, don't say iPhone like it's something good.

@Fatal,

Because money can be made in WM market. PIE being weak, the superb Opera Mobile 9.5 gets preinstalled, and downloaded by many...

Symbian however is a different story. Nokia controls Symbian browser market, thus Nokia's S60 browser is preinstalled, not Opera Mobile. That makes Opera's Symbian business-model less obvious...

Notice, iPhone already got 7 % market share, and will be chased by HTC Diamond and Pro, Samsung Omnia, and SE Xperia this year. All WM 6.1 phones with the Touch approach, which is estimated to dominate future.

The historical market shares are not relevant


(Btw. what's the definition of Symbian in OP ?... S60 + UIQ ? )

Ares, each version preinstalled on a phone is made for that phone. Making one that works on all, and takes into account all the silly little changes to OS and UI (that manufacturers implement to stop us realising we're buying the same phone over again) is substantially harder.

Take 8.65. That works perfectly on my N81 8gb, but images get misplaced on my 6120 classic. Both are s60 phones with feature pack 1 software running the latest software (til last week anyway) yet one works and one doesn't.

Once we get to extract sis installer for opera from beibei (soon), i will show you how hard it is. at least on uiq3, the differences between the phones are not big. And certainly arent bigger than in wm phones.

Also, beibei runs uiq 3.3, p1 runs uiq 3.0, opera 9.5 runs ok on both.

@ares07: did you read the previous post? It's easy to talk about how easy it is when you don't have to do the actual engineering yourself, I guess

Some versions of Opera Mobile 9.5 are already shipping on great phones like the HTC Touch Diamond, and some of you have asked why we wouldn't be able to release it publically yet. As you probably know, releasing a version that works on a large variety of phones is more complex than making it work on one specific phone. You should also expect a few differences between the versions that are pre-installed on phones and the public version of Opera Mobile 9.5.

Dammit, I stole my wise observation.

The answer is simple: MONEY! But then again, we can't blame anyone for wanting some, can we? Let's just wait patiently for the symbian version. I only hope opera mini is improved between now and then

I'd take more mini features and stability over a beta of mobile any day.

nzgeek writes: I had little doubt that the Symbian platform would be supported, but why did it take so long for Opera to tell us this?

Firstly, thank you for being forthcoming. It's a very welcome change from all those months of silence, and I think it's something we people should support and encourage.

We've already waited for such a long time, so a little while longer won't make a big difference. Some screenshots, maybe highlighting some key differences between the S60 versions of mobile 8.65 and 9.5 would go a long way with end users too, it'd make the wait more bearable and give us something to look forward to. So far, there have been screenshots of 9.5 running on UIQ and Windows mobile, but none for S60.

Anyways, thanks again. I think we all appreciate your taking some time out to address and respond to our concerns.

I do welcome the statement that Mobile will eventually be available on Symbian. However, I do wish that Opera would send its bloggers on a course so they know how to write in a way which is clear and unambiguous. Does "Symbian" mean ALL Symbian devices (S60, UIQ, MOAP, even FOMA)? Or does is mean S60 and UIQ? Or does it mean UIQ (as that is the only Symbian Platform on which it has been demonstrated).

Come on PRKing. Would we love them so much if they weren't so mysterious.

The day bloggers go on writing courses is the day blogging dies...

GoeJoeGo, whatever...opera is not "pre-installed" on the Sony Ericsson P1 and never will...the only way is to provide it via standalone installer or via firmware upgrade. And the same version that works on the P1, will work on P990, M600, W950, W960, G700, G900, P1, not to mention Beibei/Paris.

I think the context on Windows Mobile is far more complex, and yet...

*nods* different and unknown custom sets, possible incompatabilities with other components. Different hardware requires different addressing algoritms. On nokia: device dependent libraries for everything from flash to disk- access and memory handling. Some apis simply don't work the same way on one phone to the other. There's no handling of different resolutions in terms of layout and component placement.

But who goes out of business? The one platform where you actually have platform consistency, and an actual possibility to deploy fairly advanced apps without major rewriting on both UI and program logic from device to device.

Which, of course, would actually have any benefit had UIQ or SE any intention whatsoever of actually making use of this for their exclusively embedded applications that fit on phones they cancel - probably because the focus- groups think the colours on the buttons weren't nice enough, and the animations didn't drain the battery in a few hours (which is a quality stamp, because that means it's "powerful").

...I fucking hate this business.

Honestly, when ARM finally makes a few handheld computers with non gsm wireless solutions and voip, and we can retire the entire "smartphone" idea once and for all, and getting existing tech continuously fucked up apparently on purpose by morons who will rather charge you 1€ for an MMS, instead of opening up for flat rate data- plans people can use - that will be a good day.

And when the time comes I'll make a point of thanking you lot of idiots for buying the crap on the market at the moment, and managing to make it pay off to sabotage any and all use of existing tech. Really, from the bottom of my heart - think of my gratitude the next time you're happily paying kilo prices for SMS (read: paying a tariff in addition to the network subscription that has nothing to do with the actual transfer cost of the sms), and happily flip around on "wap" for 1€ per button- click. It's your fucking fault.

ISRAEL writes: Good news , i waiting for S60 3rd beta :up:

@prking: just because they don't tell you everything you want to know doesn't mean that they need a course Maybe you need a course on how to be polite?

@ares07: when did I say anything about the P1? I linked to the explanation for Windows Mobile, which is likely equally applicable for Symbian.

Anonymous writes: fleinn, I mean potty mouth.... relax.

@GoJoeGo, I'm not asking for Opera to tell me everything. I merely think that the term Symbian is ambiguous. Opera would stop all the speculation by being clear and precise.

Perhaps we could all guess, which of the following Symbian platforms will Mobile 9.5 be available on? The choices are S60v2, S60v3, S60v5, UIQ2.0, UIQ3.0, UIQ3.3, MOAP, SUP and FOMA My guess is that it will be S60v3 and UIQ3.0 which is based on what 8.65 was released on.

@prking: maybe it's supposed to be ambiguous With the UIQ situation and all, maybe everything isn't sorted out yet.

@GoJoeGo, I hope you are right about the intentional ambiguity.

With the holiday season starting in Europe, I doubt we will see a Symbian version of any sort for a good few months.

fleinn, I mean potty mouth.... relax.

Why? The "experts" in the industry don't know what platform independency means. They think "open source" involves giving things away - and have no concept of the difference between specificication and standard, as opposed to implementation and phased abstraction. They sincerely think that "platform security" is something that helps them protect themselves against thieves and evil hackers. They believe that if the actual process behind their business was made public, they'd be out of the business in no time at all because of an image problem. It's simply no discussion that if you come up with a good idea for inserting more money into the mobile industry - then you're not going to suceed, unless it involves closed hidden deals having to do with proprietary formats and - if it's physically possible - hardwired incompatibility with every other system. Data- exchange in this "market" is simply uninteresting as anything else than a way to pull in more money per button- press of a phone.

And do you know the real reason why this is so important? It's because if data- traffic was opened up, there would be more money involved - and the existing phone- companies would have no choice but to evolve their systems more quickly. But if they can churn out proprietary solutions for webshops like the "Apple store" or Nokia's "music store" - then it's possible to come up with hundred ways to explain how it's necessary to keep the call- prices up, and sms intact.

Because what are you gonna do, right? Complain about it? What about just buying the thing, believing it's more useful than it is, based on the advertisements from the phone- makers? While just saying - yeah - that seems reasonable: I'll pay a small amount of money for each sms I send, and pretend that I wouldn't dream of using IM, mail and calendar- sync more on a mobile if the data- prices were less ridiculous. And then simply buying everything uncritically, loving the proprietary in- built solutions. That would show them!

Anonymous writes: "SRAEL writes: Good news , i waiting for S60 3rd beta :up:" It seems like 90% of the people here are. Highest demand, but they decide to develop it last. Doesn't make sense.

@last anonymous: doesn't make sense? How about you read the posts explaining how it makes sense before commenting?

http://www.uiqblog.com/2008/07/08/soap-opera/

Hope this is not censored...

Flein, I pay a fiver ($9.87US) for a months unlimited HSDPA speed data on a pay and go tariff. Haven't sent a text in almost a year now as I have push e-mail coming to my phone all day and my IM connected most of the day. I browse using Opera Mini, mostly for the speed, and am almost always somewhere on the web.

But you're right. I'm one of the ones who've actively sought out the way things should be. Everyone else seems to be getting conned one way or the other. Remember when text messages were a free service as the networks thought no-one would use them? Now you're charged through the nose.

I am confused about symbian. Opera will support uiq b\c they have worked very much on it. But i doubt s60 version. n73os9.1, n95os9.2, n96os9.3 which will be supported or opera waiting for touch screen nokia phones. Flauge please reply and tell us which symbian phones will be supported?

@ares07: I don't understand why you keep spamming your blog here. That post shows exactly why personal blogs pretending to be "professional" always end with disaster.... That rant is like reading blog posts by angsty teen girls writing about how the boy they like doesn't like them back....

@rizwanasif: do you really think that Opera is going to reveal information like that in some random blog comment?

is there a chance that Operamobile 9.5 will be developed for the iPhone?



.

It's for smartphones.

@rizwanasif: do you really think that Opera is going to reveal information like that in some random blog comment?

..Sure thing the mobile industry is infuriating. But I guess the worst part of it has to be random people running around pretending to be "in the know". They go "ooh, I was on a briefing, and got the corporate mail where [insert company] told us they were going to revolutionize how the phone industry works - so now I know everything there is about how things /really/ hang together. And please observe me now, while I bloviate about how I'm earning a bit of money by investing in this business, and making fun of the people who actually work with the devices and the standards the industry is ripping off in their attempts to revive "portal services" for the 15th year running - ZOMG! MUSIC STORE AND APPLE STORE!!! It's perfectly making use of web- services that have been available for a nothingt'h on any platform that can run a decent browser!! OMG!!elevenses11!!!".

Because while short- sighted business oriented thinking about single devices, or particular manufacturers might make sense to some extent in the short term (if you have no ambition about actully getting mobile devices up on an at least somewhat usable level) - the rest of us can see it for what it is. The reason why the mobile business is such a tar- pit of utter futility when it comes to any sort of development or evolution. So that even when the standards exist, or even when they are used - it will be device dependent solutions we end up with that have no market potential. But happily sponsored by not just by talentless focus- groups hired out by MacWorld, gullible investors and bloviating users - but also by the people who buy these phones without really using the services on them, or understand in any way what they're actually capable of if they're designed properly.

We went through this with Windows as well - "I'm surfing on Internet Explorer now, which gives me all kinds of web- content, including flash and Quicktime video - thank you Microsoft, for inventing the internet (or at least bringing it to the masses! I love you Bill Gates!". But instead of us being able to just ignore people like that and get on with things - they are the core users for the perpetually failing projects on mobile. And it's them the products are made for, with almost no exceptions. Presumably because to actually provide a useful product, and encouraging people to using it, that makes no sense business- wise, when "presence" and "exclusivity" is what drives every project.

So you won't get anyone in the mobile business advertising for how their devices can run 3rd party programs with virtually no restraints. Nor will they really aim for such a thing - it works the other way around. Sitting on your ancient in house conventions is considered a strenght. While shunning any open standard is evidence of determination. If you do this in the face of huge losses - then it's even better, apparently.

And I cannot for the life of me understand why, if the intention here really was to earn money. As opposed to end up pissing off users when the hype wears off and perpetuating SMS and MMS for decades as part of some sort of insane experiment. Before deliberately reaching a very definite ceiling on that market, and then following it surely and steadily downwards, as all IM and portable calling that isn't an emergency disappears from mobile almost completely.


Or what do you think, GoGo? Maybe it just so happens that the mobile industry on an upward turn? Once they create this new super- device that does everything? And once and for all makes a breakthrough on the platform and device- dependent buying solutions? Which will signal a new era in mobile technology? Come on, let's hear it (in elliptical and trite argumentation, please - I just love that).

@fleinn: uh, I really don't understand what your comment has to do with my comment or even Opera Mobile 9.5

Originally posted by flein:

Because while short- sighted business oriented thinking about single devices, or particular manufacturers might make sense to some extent in the short term (if you have no ambition about actully getting mobile devices up on an at least somewhat usable level) - the rest of us can see it for what it is. The reason why the mobile business is such a tar- pit of utter futility when it comes to any sort of development or evolution.

iPhone is evolution, so Opera developing 9.5 for competitors, like HTC Diamond or Samsung Omnia, is good news...

Your SE P1 can't compete. Sales numbers (ref. SE profit warning) confirm that...

" ..Sure thing the mobile industry is infuriating. "... So your *furie* is directed toward eg. SE, not Opera, right ???

iPhone is evolution

No. It's a single device with a locked down operating system running proprietary software from one and to the other. The Apple Store will be a single platform deployment engine. It's been done before. Again and again.

Really, it's a wonder that something like Opera mini even exists. Where you can install a fully functional browser on more than one device from the same build. And end up accessing content freely afterwards. But because of uninteresting things like standards and platform consistency, it is actually possible after all. And(!) it does not signal the end of the mobile industry!

But you make an excellent point - instead of saying "your UIQ devices can't compete with X phone", you say "your p1 can't compete". Somehow it's also incredible that there's not just one but two Windows Mobile devices that can run Opera Mobile. While it's just not interesting to know about what kind of work is involved in actually making anything run on more than one WM device (let alone making it run stable). And how much simpler this is on for example UIQ (or on any other system that was designed with at least some intent of making the same code produce about the same results between different versions.. Which actually can be done, strangely enough, without preventing any improvements to the core... really - it's like *magic*).

And, I'm not mad at SE or Opera. (Just like UIQ, they provide the product they are asked to, and which currently works.. after a fashion). I'm mad at people who buy into the "single device" model for selling phones, and then insist on snark when others comment on how much this actually stops development of useful software. Something which - contrary to belief, I suppose - would actually insert more money into the mobile business, and instantly break the orthodoxies around how the tinyest amounts of users are "really interested" in anything else but talk and sms. But no one wants that, it seems, so who cares. Those who are not on message - well, they're just mad because they're not getting their toys, of course..

"Oh," they're saying, "if I only could beg more convincingly for any information! It's not like there's a larger point to any of this, after all, so therefore I'm delivering myself here, hoping someone will give me something sweet and nice because they pity us. I suppose it looks really stupid, but I'm going to go for it anyway".

Sad... that this is all self- styled experts on the mobile business can come up with to explain lack of "enthusiasm" in the market, and why we're not having another 1998 again right now - with for example the iPhone.

See - ten years from now, unless the mobile industry changes radically, there will be nothing left. Or it will be replaced with something that actually makes a little bit sense. And I will enjoy that very much. Specially when the investments start to dry up for real to the phone- maker in house projects, and are replaced with for example full platforms built on a *nix core, or a symbian core (even if we'll have to see how flexible the Symbian foundation will be). Because when that happens, the large phone- makers and their device- depdendent solutions won't last two months. Or, they'll last two months before they're outdated, compared to older devices. For example - why did the internet bubble turn up? Because of a sudden opportunity for anyone to create advanced web- solutions that anyone could use.

Of course - if the monopoly situation on radio bands will be removed by legal measures before that - well, I guess you can't have everything, either.

Wrong spelling, but I'll take the publicity.

Anonymous writes: "@last anonymous: doesn't make sense? How about you read the posts explaining how it makes sense before commenting?" That comment you linked to doesn't offer the answer. The S60 browser built on webkit is not good. It has a crappy tab implementation that virtually needs a hack to be usable, does not allow you to assign shortcut keys, and many other limitations. They don't update that browser with firmware upgrades. So your smart ass comment is a moot point.

@Anonymous: it rather looks like you are the one who doesn't understand the comment I linked to

@fleinn,

iPhone showed the market that a PC-like browsing experience is possible on smartphones, and was rewarded with a 7% share (Q4). That was the evolution, triggering development, resulting in competitors (HTC Diamond and Samsung Omnia)...

iPhone being locked, thus taking advantage until competition is real, is a strategy necessary to recover high development cost. (Similar to patent rights in the drug industry).

All benefit from the NOW fast growing mobile browsing market. End-users, Opera, device manufacturers, carriers, content and service providers...

That can't be bad

Ya know, this page was more fun when people didn't hide behind long, overly complex explanations of their beliefs and just said that everyone's phone but their own sucked. It brought back memories of the 80s home computer wars.