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What the Fuck Do You Know?

Recently there has been something of a trend in certain sections of the media - not particularly high profile - to talk about the convergence of science and religion, or science and mysticism. Perhaps one of the earliest examples of this, and a paradigmatic title, to boot, is The Tao of Physics. More recent examples of the same phenomenon include The Field and a documentary with the rather naff title of What the Bleep Do We Know? (If they wanted to use a naughty word why didn't they just go ahead and use it?) Now, let me lay my cards clearly upon the table and say, I do not like science. I have never liked science. I just don't like it. Perhaps it's the stereotypical Romantic in me, but I have never got past the stereotypical meglomaniac with a test-tube image of science. Well, perhaps that's doing both me and science an injustice. Actually, I'm a little more thoughtful on the subject than that. However, I parted company with science at an early age. When I was thirteen or thereabouts, I recall, I got the highest marks in my class for physics, and the teacher actually spoke to me privately to ask me to take the class as one of my options, since so few people took physics. Looking back now, I feel rather sorry for him and almost wish I had taken physics. What actually happened was that I hated science so much that I managed to get an unusual arrangement for myself, not generally allowed, and after options I took no science classes whatsoever.

Since that time my interest in science has grown a little, partly because I'm just a very curious person (oi, you're making up you're own jokes there, as Frankie Howerd would say) and I want to know everything. I also have a sense that I have neglected science, and I want to catch up. So, I was naturally quite interested in this whole 'science meets mysticism' phenomenon. There also seemed to be something pleasingly utopian about it - the mystics and scientists all holding hands and building a peaceful world together. That's still a pleasing idea to me. However, in my admittedly desultory attempts to catch up on my science, I have found some of my prejudices being confirmed in as much as, after plunging back in with an open mind, I still come out hating certain fundamental aspects of the scientific world. This has also made me uneasy about the whole 'science meets mysticism' dream, too, and a while back I expressed my misgivings in this blog entry.



To explain in brief, my misgivings go a little like this: I hear some people saying that modern science, particularly quantum mechanics, is 'saying the same thing' as mystics such as Lao Tze were saying before the birth of Christ. However, the people who say this, it seems to me, tend not to be scientists. In my experience, people with a very scientific background look on the extrapolations that many people have made of quantum mechanics - extrapolations, for instance, to do with a holographic universe in which all information is stored indestructibly as if in 'the mind of God' - as pure philosophy, and not science at all. I become a little uneasier when I reflect that I know very little about science. If I have any kind of mystical beliefs about the world (actually, I have inclinations rather than beliefs) then I would rather not base them on something that I fundamentally don't understand just because I think it will lend my ideas some kind of authority by doing so. I find, in fact, that I am not interested in authority, that I do not want it, that I am even suspicious of authority as it exists, for instance, in phrases such as 'scientific fact'. I think the scientific response to any claims I might make that science supports my beliefs (or inclinations) about the dreamlike nature of reality etcetera would be, in words of greater or lesser politeness, "What the fuck do you know?" You see, I'm not a scientist. Let's forget that nice, utopian alliance. Let's not hold hands.

This brings me to an e-mail that I sent to New Scientist magazine this morning. I was having my breakfast of Weetabix and Bran Flakes when I noticed a still from the film What the Bleep Do We Know? Was I going to get some offical scientific stance on the validity of this 'science and mysticism converge'-type film? I was eager to find out, and I rather suspected that the film would be trashed; ("We'll have no mysticism round here, thank you very much!") I was not wrong. Here is the e-mail I wrote, which should explain what I found:

Dear New Scientist,
I read Marcus Chown's review of
Quantum Enigma (19 August, p.47) with interest, partly because of a general desire to learn more on the subject of quantum theory, and partly because of a specific curiosity as to what would be said in the pages of New Scientist about the film What the Bleep Do We Know? Marcus Chown tells us that the film is "one of the most scandalously bad misrepresentations of physics in years", and this certainly piqued my curiosity. However, I soon discovered that Mr Chown was indulging in misrepresentation of his own. First of all, he states that "the main character successfully uses this mind-over-matter technique to thin her thighs". This categorically does not happen in the film, and I rather wonder at Mr Chown's motives for making such a claim. Perhaps it was simple inattention, for which theory there is further evidence. He goes on to say, "[t]he irony here is that the true world revealed by quantum theory ... is far wilder than anything in the movie. It is a place where an atom can be in two places at once".

This was a fact that was, actually, dealt with in some detail in the film. It cannot be "far wilder than anything in the movie", because it
was in it. I realise that these remarks were part of a review for a book, and the article itself was not about the film, but, apart from getting his facts right, could Marcus Chown not, perhaps, have enlightened us as to precisely why the film was such a terrible misrepresentation of physics? I, for one, would have been interested to find out. Instead, he makes that claim without following up in any substantial way - only with two slight statements about the film that are actually false.

Was there any need to mention the film at all, or did Mr Chown wish to mention it just in order to dismiss it in some vague manner? I am still interested to know why the film is misleading about physics, and Mr Chown's article has left me none the wiser.




Well, this is rather depressing, isn't it? It would be much better, I think, if the 'peace process' went ahead in the way that those people who made the scandalously bad misrepresentation of physics seem to desire. Many of them, if the credits are to be believed, are prominent scientists themselves. Are these people imposters? Are they renegades? How is it that they are managing to misrepresent their own science so badly? This is not a rhetorical question, I really want to know what's going on here.

To be fair, there are even the very occasional nods in a magazine like New Scientist to the old science-meets-mysticism chestnut, such as an article by the Dalai Lama on why Buddhism resembles quantum mechanics, and, whether it is, in some 'factual' sense, 'right' or 'wrong', I applaud such openness.

What I don't applaud is the monopolisation of authority, and if I were to give an example of why I still, so very often, feel that I hate science, I would have to go no further than the same issue of New Scientist mentioned above. There’s an article entitled ‘All About Me’ and the opening blurb runs thus:

If you are looking for deeper self-knowledge, forget introspection and put your faith in science. Not only will it tell you about your health, it can also reveal secrets about your ancestry, personality, sexuality, attitudes, perceptions and intelligence.

"Don't think for yourself," it tells us, "Let science do the thinking for you. After all, you're not a scientist. What the fuck do you know?"

To which I reply, "I might ask you the same question."

Not today, thank you. Sell your genetic Bibles somewhere else. I think I'll stick with the introspection.

HarrisstockThis Killing Sadness

Comments

Mel 25. August 2006, 20:16

Excellent post, Quentin.

I refused to see "What the Bleep do We Know" firstly out of cantankerousness and secondly because it seemed to have a lot of J.Z. Knight involved, and anything dealing with her or her alterego Ramtha tends to stick in my craw. I happen to believe the woman is a charlatan and thief, although it's been said never give a sucker an even break. Most of my friends saw the movie and liked it; said it made them think.

I've read and seen some things about quantum physics; that said, I still understand none of it. The idea of string theory or M theory still baffles me beyond the first few expository words. I still like playing with the ideas, though. I usually forget everything I've learned, so reading it again is a novel experience most of the time.

What I do know is that science is not static; it shifts and expands (or contracts) as people discover and test new theories. As I see it, the difference between science and mysticism is this: science questions (or should question) every result; mysticism questions nothing.

It's difficult to explain in so many words (and already I've used too many...)

dɹɐzılpǝkɔıw ɐʞɐ ɹǝɥgɐllɐg lǝbɐsı 25. August 2006, 21:10

I´m here! As always.... :D
Interesting topic!

Quentin S Crisp 25. August 2006, 21:43

Hello Melissa. Hello Wicked Lizard.

The format of What the Bleep, as you may have heard, is that there is a kind of drama framing various talking heads. These talking heads are from different fields of study and so on, mainly to do with quantum mechanics and biology, but also to do with theology of one kind or another. During the film itself, no information on who these people are is given, so that you can 'make up your own mind' based purely on what they are saying. At the very end of the film, all the talking heads introduce themelves. From that point of view it might be irrelevant to say that it misrepresents quantum physics, as the book reviewer claimed, since the very aim seems to be to stir up a kind of hot-pot and see what happens. It's interesting actually just listening to a person talk and trying to judge their words alone without that, "This is who I am, this is why you should believe me" element. It's also funny that you should mention Ramtha, because I noticed for myself there was something odd about the way she was talking. I had the impression she was winging it a bit. For instance, "Now, this camera is seeing more than is actually here."

That's a typical statement of hers, but what does it mean? My impression is that she has somehow mangled what she meant to say. My best guess is that she meant something like, "This camera is taking in more information than we are, because our subjective judgements are causing us to filter out information." But I really don't know.

On the other hand, most of the other talking heads I found to be very sympathetic. What does it prove? Well, I don't know. That's the problem. Having nosed around this area for a while I find some scientists seeming to talk in a mystical fashion, and other scientists dismissing them. So, there's a disagreement. But not being deeply embedded in the world of science, it's hard for me to know who I should trust. I wish I was better positioned to judge, because it's very frustrating. Is the evidence for homeopathy - for instance - based on poorly devised experimentation, or was the experimentation (by Jean Benveniste) sabotaged by orthodox forces within the scientific establishment? For a lay-person like myself it's the word of one stranger against another.

I sigh. I give up. Maybe the orthodox scientists are right and it's all a load of nonsense. Very well. But even if I come to this point, I find that I cannot give my life, my world, to orthodox scientific belief. There is something in me that simply does not belong in such a world. I belong elsewhere. I am re-discovering what I have had to bury for many years in order to appear normal - that I do not have a this-world orientation at all. For me it is not reality that is important; it is imagination. I see everything as the interaction of shifting fictions. Being a story-writer, I view the world in terms of stories. The soap opera of daily life that most people seem to think is real - that dreary consensus-reality - does not interest me at all. I am interested in the fantastic and grotesque, in the opium dream, and would rather dwell in such realms. Before I read philosophy, I was exploring possible worlds in my head, not knowing or caring whether they were real, only whether they enchanted or fascinated me.

I'm not sure I'm expressing myself very well, but perhaps you get the general idea.

dɹɐzılpǝkɔıw ɐʞɐ ɹǝɥgɐllɐg lǝbɐsı 25. August 2006, 21:52

I don´t belong to any "orthodox" religion, political points of view or science. I grasp what I learn and read in between the lines and make up my own mind about it. Maybe, my own theories maybe with time be proved wrong, and that´s okay, because I am open-minded enough to accept what I learned again but, I will STILL read in between the lines of the new information and make up my own mind again. :D

And yes, you are expressing yourself very well indeed! Make up your own mind about it! :D

Mel 25. August 2006, 22:04

I do get the idea--and I agree. There's more under the sun than is dreamt of in your philosophy--however Hamlet put it. And I like it that way. I like that science can't put its finger on quantum mechanics or physics (though they're trying, and there are some closer to it than others). And as you said, there is a division among the scientists themselves. That's what keeps it interesting :smile:

Have you heard of Brian Greene? He's a youngish (30s) physicist who wrote "The Elegant Universe", a book I own, and have only dipped into from time to time.

A little off-topic, but the Ramtha thing makes me giggle (when it doesn't make me mad). Her seminars cost people $800.00 to start with--but I suppose it isn't much different than tithing to a church.

dɹɐzılpǝkɔıw ɐʞɐ ɹǝɥgɐllɐg lǝbɐsı 25. August 2006, 22:12

:eyes: My god! What a rip-off this Ramtha woman is!!!!

Quentin S Crisp 25. August 2006, 23:46

Completely off topic before I go to bed, but I've been fiddling about with myspace and have set up a site there, or whatever it's called.

It's here. I don't know if anything will come of it. It's an experiment, really.

Also, just like to share with the world these two youtube films, featuring Dorothy, the band for whom I sometimes write lyrics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5U8WEU4XFQ&NR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kwcbjHrxLo

I'd also like to post this link, what I found whilst nosing about youtube. I like it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obbrS8Zd-AE&mode=related&search=

Well, to bed. More later, no doubt. Goodnight.

dɹɐzılpǝkɔıw ɐʞɐ ɹǝɥgɐllɐg lǝbɐsı 25. August 2006, 23:52

i also a have a space at myspace, total waste of time!!! I will be removing
everything from it because I keep getting unsolicited messages to my e-mail of the same gender as me and quite frankly, there is nothing there that states I am into that sort of thing.... if you get my drift.... :insane:

lesoldatperdu 26. August 2006, 06:12

Only three things in life are certain: Death, taxes... and Myspace!

But yes, I was going to recommend Myspace to you. I've had an account for a while, which I've been neglecting. I think it could be a good promotional tool for your work.

I don't read scientific journals much these days, because I find that anti-human attitude you described too depressing. I don't want to listen to some maniac's latest plans for a Brave New World-esque 'utopia'.

One of the most frightening things I've read about are the brain and nerve implants that eliminate depression. People are actually using these things. I hate this idea that natural human impulses are something that need to be 'defeated' by science, that technology, not inner-strength and willpower, is the answer to our problems -- "You're not depressed because the world is a terrible place, you have a 'chemical imbalance'. Here, take this pill."

Something that irritated me about that Stephen Hawking link you posted before, aside from the fact that he doesn't mention AIDS, which is a far more immediate threat than anything else he talks about, is his half-joke at the end -- "Perhaps we must hope that genetic engineering will make us wise and less aggressive."

Quentin S Crisp 26. August 2006, 09:17

Just got up.

Melissa - Someone reccomended The Elegant Universe to me before. I'll have to check it out.

Wicked Lizard - Well, I was wondering whether it would be a waste of time. It's interesting the very different focus a change of format in these things brings. The blog aspect seems, well, it's tucked away somewhere. Not that I want to keep so many blogs. Clearly Myspace is geared towards networking, which I do actually think is quite a valuable thing, even though the word is a bit disgusting in the wrong hands (or mouth). I'll see how it goes.

Lawrence - I still have to read Huxley, and still want to. Where is your Myspace account? I'd be interested to have a look.

ambersimmons 27. August 2006, 23:01

Hi Quentin,

This was a lovely post; thanks for writing it.

My household is an interesting blend of science and mysticism. I'm a theologian; my husband is a quantum physicist. We have interesting conversations :smile: He once said to me, "Science explains how. It's up to religion and philosophy to explain why."

The merging of science and mysticism, I think, is an attempt at providing ecologic/holistic answers to complex questions. If the universe is a question, certainly neither science nor religion alone can adequately address it. Personally, I'm happy to see more interest paid to this marriage of mysticism and science, because I embrace the recognition that there is no one way to approach difficult questions about the universe. I hope this means we're coming out of this Cartesian insistence upon science over metaphysics; I hope we're learning to see them as necessary complements rather than competitors with one necessarily superior to the other.

For what it's worth, I though What the Bleep was a terrible film; I didn't find it at all credible, and actually found it somewhat insulting. The Tao of Physics I like, but then I'm a huge Capra fan. I've also enjoyed Paul Davies's book, _The Mind of God_ which is a similar blend.

anyway, thank you for the thoughtful read.

dɹɐzılpǝkɔıw ɐʞɐ ɹǝɥgɐllɐg lǝbɐsı 28. August 2006, 09:49

The merging of science and mysticism in my view is a good thing. It used to be connected throughout history and somewhere it separated. I am glad that there are scientists out there, who can see the "god concept" in science too. In one of Stephen Hawking´s TV series of documentaries, he made that connection or understood it. It made me smile that such a great mind, that many great minds have made that distinction. :smile:

I can not make an opinion about "What the Bleep do we know", I haven´t seen it. But, from what I gather, I guess I wouldn´t bother or maybe, just for curiousity´s sake, I would see it... but, I doubt I will agree with it.

Quentin S Crisp 28. August 2006, 10:09

Hello Amber.

It's good to hear from you, and interesting to hear of the meeting of science and mysticism in your life. I would love to hear some of the conversations in your house. I'm still trying to assimilate a lot of scientific ideas, but I find that, even in the explanations provided for lay-people, actually, a lot of stuff is not explained. They tend to gloss over quite a lot, and it seems like there are details missed out that are vital to my understanding of things. But perhaps those details are missed out because they're lengthy equations that would mean little to someone outside the field, or something.

Thanks for the book reccomendations, too.

Hello Wicked Lizard.

As far as I know - and I could be mistaken - science and mysticism got separated in the West by William of Ockham, who, ironically, wished to protect the concept of God from meddling philosophers by putting it completely out of reach in the realm of pure faith. He did this with a device called Ockham's razor, which you may know about, which, again ironically, has become the mainstay of atheist reductionism. Quoting from Wikipedia:

"One important contribution that he made to modern science and modern intellectual culture was through the principle of parsimony in explanation and theory building that came to be known as Ockham's razor. This maxim, as interpreted by Bertrand Russell (1946, 462–463), states that if one can explain a phenomenon without assuming this or that hypothetical entity, there is no ground for assuming it. That is, one should always opt for an explanation in terms of the fewest possible number of causes, factors, or variables."

I hope Amber will correct me if I'm wrong about Ockham's role in the separation of science and religion/mysticism.

dɹɐzılpǝkɔıw ɐʞɐ ɹǝɥgɐllɐg lǝbɐsı 28. August 2006, 11:00

Well, thank you for that info, I had no idea! I will read up on him.

Anonymous 14. June 2009, 22:08

mariamagdalena22777 writes:

what we have for language, knowledge or science is based in time and space dimensions. those dimensions do not exist in our mind. our mind works with dimensions that we define as eternal and infinite, and in those dimensions everything is true. we fall from our natural dimensions because of suffering. suffering makes us divide our existence in mind and body, and that´s when time and space appear. but, again, those dimensions are illusional, and are the biggest mistake we have ever done. that is adam and eves original sin.

simple as this (you need a spanish translator, cause i recorded this discovery in spanish): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWBcqL8x88E

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