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FZ25 DSP-Factory pages

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A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away... whatever, there was a page on the web dedicated to the needs of the discerning Yamaha DSP factory (DS2416) owner. Sadly, the DSP factory is no longer part of my studio rig :frown: but my infos on the DSP factory find new life here. Most of this stuff is dated, if I find the time or if I'm asked I might update this with some newer DSP factory info as well. Inform me of any dead links, as always comments welcome.

What's new 3rd October 2002
  • Updated PCI latency issues with VIA chipsets (for all pro-audio card users not just the DS2416)
    (information has been updated but the versions of available patches has not changed)
  • Latest drivers (under construction)
  • Information for dual-card users (under construction)
  • DSP-factory Introduction (under construction)

PCI latency issues with VIA chipsets

The problem

The problem stems from how the chipset manages the PCI bus. Most chipsets suffer PCI latency to a greater or lesser degree, but successive VIA chipsets have been particularly poor in this area. This includes nearly all Athlon, P3 and P4 chipsets that have been released in the last 5 years, right up to and including the current crop, but not including the very latest P4Xxxx series - these boards do not suffer the latency problem and are based around a different south bridge design.

PCI latency is the amount of time, in clock cycles, that the chipset interrupts the PCI bus, even when PCI cards are bus-master. This results in poor timing stability, and reduced bandwidth for data intensive applications. These problems particularly affect multichannel audio cards, because they are required to stream data in real time, and bandwidth intensive cards like PCI video-editing cards, U160 scsi and RAID cards.

More information can be found at these sites:

PC Buyers guide VIA chipset problem summary
TecChannel VIA latency bus bandwidth performance analysis

Why is this an issue with the pro-audio cards like the DSP-factory? Typically such cards support multiple channels of audio streaming. For instance, On a dual card DS2416 card setup, up to 32 channels of audio can be streamed from the host application (PC) to the card at up to 48Khz / 32-bit resolution, in real time. When starting to approach these capabilities, the PCI latency problem can quickly surface. Using an Asus A7V133 motherboard (Via KT133A), with dual DS2416 cards for example, the limitation appears at around 18 channels of audio, which can be steamed without audio problems. Attempting to use more channels than the PCI bandwidth allows results in breakup of the audio - glitches, pops, or slowdown. Similar behaviour will undoubtedly be found using other pro-audio and video editing PCI cards. The problem is further exacerbated in high end workstations with RAID and U160 SCSI cards, which require a significant amount of PCI bus bandwidth for themselves, further crippling the availability of channels that can be streamed.

The solution

More of a workaround, there are patches now available that mimimise bus-intervention from the chipset without reducing stability, thus raising the "limit" to a point where it is no longer a problem. There are two patches available:

Via's RAID patch v1.05 (earlier versions were not generic solutions) - Recommended!
George's latency patch site - try this if the Via patch above does not work for you

**IMPORTANT** These patches should not be used together. Potential hard drive corruption and machine instability could result. Both patches can be safely uninstalled through Add/Remove Programs. Both patches have been tested under Windows 98SE and Windows XP here, and should also work under 95 / ME / 2000 as well. I am not aware if Windows NT 4 is supported.

The VIA RAID patch is unreleased at present so only use it if you are trying to solve a problem, and keep an eye on your system stability while running it. I have not had any problems using the patch, but just so you're aware :wink:

DSP factory drivers

<to be completed>

DSP factory - General Information

Introduction

Well, I'm not one to spend hours raving on about my own equipment :wink: but I think the DSP factory deserves a page of its own. Information and resources web-wise about the dsp factory are fairly limited. Yamaha have decided, partially due to the pricing of the card, not to get involved in the card's support, and the information on their site has remained static for the last year or so, except for some updated driver releases.

So here it is: my own DSP factory page. Here's what I want to cover... information about the DSP-factory that Yamaha seem to omit from their pages - the Yamaha DSP-factory FAQ is a load of shite so I will post the common questions that I get asked here. I intend to post information about what separates the DSP-factory from other audio cards, and what the limitations of the card are. I will also list some of the things that I don't know about the card, maybe someone can provide me with that information. Finally, what links I do have will be listed so that there is a definitive jump point for all things DS2416.

Latency

One of the most talked about things in audio-related chatrooms. Apparently, latency is now a number that dictates the size of your organ, along with Ghz and the size of your car engine. What's the deal?

16 track recording

One of the things that's been bugging me and a my fellow DSP-factory enthusiasts is, "can you record 16 analog audio channels at the same time, and if so, how?". Of course this is not possible with one DS2416 card, but with two cards, shouldn't everything double up?

Understanding input routing

OK, so the DS2416 card provides 24 channel mixing, 16 channels of hard disk audio and up to a further 8 channels of audio mixed in realtime from various I/O expansion units that can connect to the card. Why, then, does it seem impossible to mix more than four channels of audio in realtime, with the 16 hard disk channels?

Control software

Most DSP factory users control the DSP factory from their host application, such as Cubase or Cakewalk (PC) or Logic (Mac). Regardless of the host application, the DSP factory should be thought of as an 'external mixer' even though it resides within your PC. For instance (with Cubase) you would use Cubase's own mixer to submix groups of tracks which are sent to the DSP factory through its busses. The final mix, along with the DSP factory's EQ's, compressors and effects, are handled by the DSP factory. This arrangement is very powerful but often limited by the inadequacies of the host software's DSP factory mixer, which have generally increased as the cards have become older.

The other approach is to ignore the DSP factory mixer in the host application and use a another mixer app instead, two examples being C-Mexx C-Console and DSPCtrl by XPI-software. So far as I am aware, only DSPCtrl is still supported and in development today (2007). DSPCtrl adds full automation support, control surface and MIDI remote control, and a look and feel that's intuitive and great to work with overall. I can highly recommend DSPCtrl having bought and used it extensively for some time in my dual-DS2416 rig.

DSP Factory Links

Ampfea's DSP Factory list - http://www.ampfea.org/mailman/listinfo/dspfact-list Interland music - another devoted DSP-factory user - http://www.hinterlandmusic.net/dsp.htm XPI Software - DSPCtrl (recently updated) - http://www.xpi-software.net DSP Factory drivers?

Opera 9.5 alpha 1 bug-list (Kestrel)The shoddy state of "Broadband" internet access in the UK

Comments

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umm :smile:
still under construction :frown:

By sebt, # 11. September 2007, 13:16:11

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I can recommend the use of XPI's Dsp Control software, it is very good and the developer is very approachable, I have made a couple of feature requests which have filtered very quickly through betas into the stable release.

By corny, # 14. September 2007, 00:53:44

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Anonymous writes:

Hi. Do you know where to buy a cable to join the DS2416 to the SW100XG? If not, ever come across a schematic so I can build one myself? Thanks much.

By anonymous user, # 22. October 2007, 22:13:02

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Sorry, I never owned an SW1000XG. If the cable is the same as one of the DSP-factory interconnects (either AX44->DS2416 or DS2416<->DS2416) I might be able to hunt down a schematic, fairly simple really - you just need a ribbon of the right size and blocks at either end (1:1 wiring).

You could try posting your request on the DSPCtrl forum, there are quite a few SW1000XG users on there who might be able to help. The latest version of DSPCtrl also supports SW1000XG as well as DS2416 features in one uber-mixer; worth checking out if you're using both cards.

Hope that's of use!

By sebt, # 23. October 2007, 07:28:16

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David Arivett writes:

Hello I am trying to locate xp drivers for the Yamaha DSP Factory and SW-1000 sound cards.



Any info would be most appreiciated!



Thanks!



David Arivett

David {at} songsofdavid {dot} com

By anonymous user, # 26. October 2007, 17:35:40

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Unfortunately there's no official download location for the drivers any more. Good old Yamaha :frown:

However, I have the drivers, and XPI software (of DSPCtrl fame) are hosting them as well. The page you want is here.

I suggest not posting your email address directly on forums or blogsites plainly. Automated spam-bots routinely scan these pages and suddenly you can be receiving a lot of garbage. I've edited your post accordingly.

Kind regards and good luck! :smile:

By sebt, # 27. October 2007, 07:52:37

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Anonymous writes:

Thanks for the input on the cable to join the SW1000xg to the DS2416. If you could dig up a schematic, that would be very helpful. I'm not sure it's pin to pin (1:1) wiring since the SW1000xg has 14 pins and the DS2416 has 16 pins. (Do 2 pins not get used on the DS2416? Which ones?) Nevertheless if you did have a schematic, I could build the cable fairly easily. Thanks again,



Patrick

By anonymous user, # 5. November 2007, 21:38:21

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Patrick,
I can't do this from work, but if you visit the DSPctrl homepage and pull down the software (version 3), it's trial version, but you can remove it when you're done, or buy it if you like it.
The CHM Help files that come with it contain the most detailed information i have found, on the inner workings of the DS2416, SW1000XG and the pin diagrams of the card, also a lot of info on custom configurations by modifying the card interconnects. I think this would answer a lot of your questions.

Corny :smile:

By corny, # 12. November 2007, 09:53:41

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Patrick writes:

Thanks so much for your help. I'll check out that program and those help files. I also managed to find this forum a few days ago:

http://ds2416.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=134&highlight=#134

In one posting a user named Jobhas gives the following schematic and description:

I have a DS2416 serial cable 14-16 pin on my hands. It's only a direct link from 14pins, the other 2 are simply not connected. Thats how it looks if you face the female 16 pins of the connector.

.__________. 
! xooooooo !
! xooooooo !
!---___--- !


the cross (x) pins represents the dead end ones, so if you count them as pin 1 and 2 that means the 14 pin connector starts at pins 3 and 4.
____________________________________________

I thought I'd reproduce that post here in case anyone else in need of this info finds your site the way I did. Once again, thanks for your help and this page you created on the Yamaha DS2416. Best regards,

Patrick
reformatted for clarity :smile:

By anonymous user, # 14. November 2007, 15:33:16

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Shamgar writes:

Is there an older Asio SW+DS 16 driver available for XP?

I've downloaded the latest dsp factory drivers for XP, but those only include the 32 bit version, but I can't seem to get it working with cubase sx, while the cubase manual also speaks about a 16 bit version...

By anonymous user, # 11. January 2008, 08:31:00

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