User Centered

Studying the design of everyday things

iTunes as a Podcast Manager: It's time for an intervention (2nd version)

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Summary:
iTunes applies a blanket approach to podcast subscriptions that assumes they are all “consumed” in the same manner; it’s a music manager first that has been adopted for podcasts. It should instead embrace the many ways that audio is being published and subscribed to. One suggestion would be to move the concept of playlists over to podcasts and allow us to set download/sync options on playlists instead of each individual podcast. I'd *love* to hear suggestions of any software you know of that might meet my goals (Songbird, ODEO, Juice,ziePod, etc...)


This article is about an older version of iTunes. Many of the problems listed here have been addressed, maybe not as well as I'd like, but they're slowly working on it.

This is a rehash/revisit of an earlier article. I've just refined some thoughts a bit and incorporated some ideas from people who have posted and emailed me in response to the last article. If you read the old one, you can probably skip this. Also please note this has little to do with the iPod, or iTunes as a music manager. I love them!

But when it comes to podcasts, I'd like to see iTunes change. I *am* looking at other clients/managers that might work for me, but I want iTunes to go into rehab & get itself straightened up. Figure out what direction it wants to go in life and all that.




Mainstream Podcasts: The dawn of a new era… (how’s that for a setup that’s ultimately going to let you down?)

...for me at least. iTunes and the iPod has been an unbeatable feature set that's always been great for managing my mediocre music library due to the "whole product experience." The simplicity of the interface has long been a bastion of emotional and user centered design that I've happily been using for some time now, but now my requirements have changed. This interface for which I've manned the ramparts long after my will for music had been beaten and broken by what has become a year long siege from the invading hordes of podcasts, radio shows and other feed based audio programs that have stormed their way into my daily life, casting my music playlists to the fartheset reaches of my iPod. Genghis Khan has mounted an audio/RSS assault onto my unsuspecting music library and is enjoying a golden age of rotation into my morning commute (okay okay.. I'll stop). Of course, there is still the occasional rebellious resurgence from some musical favorites of mine that just never get old, but the podcast reigns supreme for me. In this last year, my use ('use' not 'disk space') has gone from all music to all podcasts. Where is a user like me to go?


Different Expecations: EW&F vs. PK&J

Podcasts and music just happen to be audio tracks that are sometimes the same format...and you listen to both with an audio device of some sort. There's not much difference apart from how you download them, but from a user standpoint there is. You shop for one and subscribe to the other. Pink Floyd's "The Wall" is a treasured member of your library , while the New York Times’ will go out with tomorrow's trash. Just because you've taken these goals "on the go" doesn't mean they've changed all that much. Music is still enjoyed, news is still consumed. iTunes understands this well enough.... maybe too well.

It's my opinion that podcasts are worthy of more than what iTunes can currently offer from the search via iTunes Music Store all the way down to the actual listening. Strangely enough, this is largely because they've taken the great ideas they have in regards to large library management and stripped them out for the podcast side of the house, presumably because most people don't have large libraries of podcasts. But in their haste to simplify the interface, they stripped out too much and put in too little resulting in a "makeshift" feel. You shouldn't just tweak and tune, fix and adjust your old way of thinking and expect it to work for a different needs because the technology is similar. They may work similarly behind the scenes but have different goals and user expectations. The stovepiped, restricted podcast interface has a hard time meeting the goals of anyone using it for more than a handful of feeds. If you are well versed in the ways of the cast, you'll have likely thought about the follow things at some point:

    [IMGRIGHT=http://files.myopera.com/Eddie_Lopez/blog/podcast_unplayed.jpg]
  • Not all podcasts are created equal: You undoubtedly have favorites, and since there’s only so much time in the day, they usually get priority. You'll listen to the same handful of podcasts on a regular basis on a regular schedule, but there are times (like a long plane trip, or when your favorite podcaster is on vacation...) when you want to get some of your more fringe podcasts queued up. iTunes does not allow you to do this. In fact, if you let something fall off the radar for too long, iTunes starts ignoring it until you tell it that you want to start up again. I understand *why* this is done, but it probably wouldn’t be necessary if it was designed properly in the first place.
  • Timeliness- A podcast now is useless later: The New York Times’ “Headlines” is a quick few minutes long podcast that I like to listen to as I’m getting ready to start the day. If I miss it though, that's fine, just forget about it and give me todays. Who wants old headlines?
  • ..but some are timeless: My "Learn French by Podcast" courses I'm taking when I've got a lull or a casual interest. Those I'll listen to at any time... when/if I get around to them. UC Berkley college lectures are the same way.
  • Wait! I’m not done (while set to only sync unplayed podcasts): If there's only 10 seconds left on a 45 minute podcast, it's safe to say I've listened to it. But if there's one second gone, why do you mark it played? The *single* reason my battery ever gets close to dying is because I'm 10 minutes into a 45 minute podcast and I don't want to put it back on the dock. I shouldn't be hesitant about using your product! But there's no "keep/save" function on the iPod...and iTunes, in its infinite wisdom, will not let you do *ANYTHING* to the iPod before it's been docked. I have my set to autosync (who doesn't?)...so as soon as I drop my iPod into the dock, it starts syncing away and removes my played episode. I would probably be happy if I had the ability to mark an episode as "unplayed" from the iPod interface instead of just iTunes... Of course, this brings up a sub-issue that doing so would reset my podcast to the beginning and I have to fast forward back to where I was.
  • One schedule to rule them all: No podcast is published on the same schedule, so why does my podcast manager insist on imposing it across all my podcasts? Further still, some podcasts are broken up into chunks every day... so whereas one podcast is published once a week, another may be published 4 times a day.


“Now wait a second!”

Here's where you think: "but you can address all that in iTunes!" Yes, but not all at the same time. For most people this is fine, I realize that. It's simple and easy to figure out....simplicity is key. But for those with more..ummm...robust requirements it's not. We're limited to:
  • The X most recent episodes: Nice...except X is different for every podcast. X=5 will get me probably a good month worth of David Pogue's columns, but only a day of Armstrong & Getty (4 published per day!), or 5 days worth of RocketBoom or... well, you get the picture.

  • The unplayed episodes: This is perfect (and my current setup) in most cases, except for any long podcast that I want to break up into different sessions. Also this is bad for things I'd like to listen to more than once. The French lessons would fall into this category. Thankfully, iTunes 7 no longer lets them build up by providing an “X unplayed” option.
  • Only most recent episode: This is great for the New York Times headline podcast. I just want the last/latest one. I don't care about yesterdays headlines at all. Armstrong and Getty push four downloads a day, so I can't use just that.
  • All episodes: Perfect for my French/Spanish lessons, anything I want to keep around for awhile, but worthless for everything else.
  • Manually update and sync my podcast (including the 'updated checked' option). Fine... but that sounds pretty labor intensive. If I only had a podcast manager that would do that for me! It's not really that complicated.


So if you have differing goals like I've noted above, you've found these options don't work well for you.

“All this complaining!…so what’s your solution (smart||dumb) guy?”

Really…just a realization that what's good for the goose is not always good for the gander. The blanket approach is wrong for all the reasons above. A podcast manager should have all subscriptions follow a "base rule" similar to what exists, but allow us to configure each podcast. At the very least, it should let us categorize or prioritize or rank it somehow and have that dictate how and when podcasts are downloaded and sync'd…

As I've alluded to, there are some things that actually would be nice to adapt from the music player side of the house- like playlists! It would save a bit of navigation for us all for our favorite feeds. Combine that with what I just said in the paragraph above, and you’ve got a good start: Allow playlists and allow them to have different download characteristics (while were at it, how about enabling the "next" on podcasts Apple?)

So, I have a podcast “library” like do with songs. This is where I set my default sync option. For example, you would set this root level to “only checked” or something like that. Then you could create a playlist called “favorite daily feeds” (or something shorter) where you have it set to sync all feeds all the time. Then you could have another folder so that any feeds in it will just get the most recent episode, and so on and so forth. Of course, a feed could be listed in both the same way smart playlists currently work for music.

Another suggestion would be to allow us a “save” option on our iPod that will work in tune with the unplayed marker/sync options. I like the PK & J show, but when they get to the listener phone call segment, I move on. There’s still plenty of audio left, but I’m done with it. It’s fine that I’m only 2/3rds of the way done. Other shows I’d like to listen in whole. And even those still don’t make it the end of the track. They have bumper music or some closing audio or music from some local band that I'm likely to skip. So build your "played" marker with those kinds of details in mind. Maybe offer a “save” flag instead. It would be similar to marking the podcast as unplayed, but without the annoying side effect of resetting your file marker to the beginning. Oh, and for the love of pete, allow us to do this from the iPod, preferably the way we’d add music to a dynamic playlist- but if that’s too confusing for users, maybe add an option similar to the “rate” function for music, but instead of stars, you toggle the save on/off.

“Talk about your vocal minority…”

Maybe, (….really?) but I'm not the only one that likes to mix it up with podcasts. As more and more podcasts get pushed out, it's going to be harder to apply one or two rules to all of them. Not to mention that someone should be making a podcast client/manager that really focuses on what the user *wants* and what the goals are. Ok- so I listen to a lot of podcasts. But an interface that was built around the ideas I’ve outlined here would likely be more user centered.

I still think that if iTunes is going to include podcasts, the simple/limited approach is not the way to go. But I’ve said my piece, and I’ll leave it at that. I'm looking towards greener pastures, but I'm not hopeful I will find a replacement. Frankly, I hope not. If I did, I'd feel silly for spending this much time writing these thoughts out. Plus, I don't really want to have to sift through all these clients and managers to find the right fit. I'll try Juice, ziePod and a handful of others... although from the screenshots and FAQs, they don't appear to address any of these issues, and might be worse since I'd lose the tight integration of iTunes, music, my dock, and my updating... ie, the whole product experience which is what has kept me using iTunes in spite of the fact that it doesn’t do everything I want. But maybe it's time to surrender the guidon to the Golden Horde and look for a better fit -I hear no reinforcements marching from Cupertino.

iTunes- it's time for an intervention. (...tie up the 'rehab' loose end while we're at it)

Today is World Usability Day!!Internet for Grandmas

Comments

Unregistered user Friday, December 8, 2006 4:12:34 AM

darrison writes: I'd like to get your opinion of http://FeedYourZune.com for video podcasts, and how it compares to iTunes and it's handling of the same. The app is still maturing, but just wondering what you think about interface and usability. Thanks.

Unregistered user Thursday, January 25, 2007 11:26:43 AM

Scott writes: So glad you brought this up! Makes me crazy. Why is this so hard? Who will fix this oversight?

Unregistered user Saturday, February 3, 2007 12:31:06 AM

Will writes: This is a serious oversight by Apple. You nailed it on the head here. All I can say is that I was really hoping to ditch Juice and use iTunes for podcast subscriptions, but neither one is really ideal. Juice -does- let you specify a lot of the features you want, like setting a retention period, but it doesn't do the syncing and "consumption" like iTunes does, so both are inadequate. I want EXACTLY the features you suggest, and that's it.

Eddie LopezEddie_Lopez Saturday, February 3, 2007 12:55:22 AM

Thanks Will- nice to know I'm not the only one.

Unregistered user Saturday, March 3, 2007 8:35:11 PM

Gabe writes: Amen to everything above. All the problems could be fixed with two changes: individual settings for each podcast, and a fix to the 'once you've started playing a podcast, iTunes counts it as played' problem. The first fix would be easy to implement -- i assume the only reason Apple hasn't done it yet is out of a (misguided) notion of keeping things simple. Hopefully it'll be fixed in a future update. The second fix is trickier, but I agree that the correct solution is to let you use the iPod to mark a podcast played or unplayed. (Sometimes I get bored of a podcast midway through, and then I'm glad to know that iTunes will delete it; other times I stop listening halfway through but plan to return to it later.) Anyway, thanks for posting this -- hopefully someone at Apple is listening. They've been good about adding little features to the iPod (i really like the ability to rate tracks on the iPod itself, and to save On-the-Go playlists), so hopefully podcasting is in line for improvements. By the way, if you want to avoid the batteries-running-out problem, you could get an AC adaptor for the iPod -- that way you can recharge it without syncing.

Eddie LopezEddie_Lopez Sunday, March 4, 2007 4:23:07 AM

Gabe-
Yeah I do have an AC adapter. That does seem to help out a bit. Thanks for sharing your thoughts

Eddie LopezEddie_Lopez Wednesday, March 14, 2007 2:08:31 PM

Gabe- Individual settings per podcast would be one (nice) solution, but I think we compartmentalize podcasts... at least I tend to "classifiy" them. I think per-podcast settings might be too much control, especially when you manage many of them. But a "smart playlist" that handled the downloading/management of the podcasts included in it. It would serve as a the afore mentioned classification and would probably simplify things a bit more. I suppose there would be nothing stopping you from having a smart playlist for every podcast though.

Unregistered user Tuesday, April 17, 2007 3:20:46 PM

Mark writes: I have to completely agree with everything you mentioned in the article and am shocked that Apple has crippled its own software, the software (and hardware) that created the Podcast. I have some music podcasts (DJ Mixes mainly) that I would like to keep on my iPod until I delete it myself (the Stones Throw podcast has some very good tunes). This may or may not apply to my foreign language feeds which I may either want to keep until I choose to delete or delete after being played (completely). And of course I have my news feeds that as you stated should be deleted as soon as a newer one is released. Right now I've got it set to Keep All (I want to hold onto those mixes) so I can delete what I want. Unfortunately, when I delete a played Podcast from iTunes and then refresh, it will download it again. This is a feature that should be added sooner rather than later.

Unregistered user Monday, April 23, 2007 12:14:09 AM

micsaund writes: Ugh... stupid captcha made me try several times to post, so my last one was bunged-up. Feel free to delete it. Un-bunged post below: ---- I agree with your post completely. I especially went "that's me!" when you mentioned not wanting to sync your iPod because a partially played podcast would be deleted. Fortunately, I have a standalone charging dock so my batteries don't die, but it's annoying nonetheless. Another huge annoyance, and what brought me here (for some reason only Google knows) is that old podcasts keep showing up on my lists. I have my iTunes set to manual download, so what happens is that several podcasts from the past (older than the ones currently on the system) will appear in the list with the "get" button. It's irritating as I have to delete them from the list and who knows? Others will probably show-up the next time I do a "refresh". Also, I have a 6GB Mini (yeah, yeah - I'm just waiting for the next, long-overdue refresh) and there's NO way to tell if a podcast has been played or not via the UI! Grrr... I wish that Apple would admit that "podcast" is a gigantic reference to using THEIR hardware and software and that they'd spend a bit of time working to make things better. I'm a huge advocate of their "system level" approach to making end-to-end packages that "just work" but the podcast stuff is "kinda works" IMO... Mike

Unregistered user Tuesday, May 8, 2007 4:37:42 PM

Anonymous writes: I agree with everything you've written, but first I'd like them to get the bugs out. Frequently podcast episodes fall out of iTunes (thankfully the files are still on disk), or I'll get duplicate (undownloaded) entries for episodes that I've been keeping around for a while, or I'll delete listings for episodes that I don't care to download, only to have them return at a later date. I've basically decided to stop using iTunes for managing my podcasts. I spend too much time trying to remember if I've already listened to that episode and deleted it or if it's just one that I haven't downloaded yet. I also wouldn't hold my breath for Apple to fix any of these things. iTunes exists to generate revenue through media sales. There's very little reason for them to put much effort into podcasts beyond getting it mostly working for most people. Andrew

Unregistered user Wednesday, May 16, 2007 4:35:16 AM

Bob writes: Hello, I wonder what version of iTunes you write this about. Because in the current version I have... 7.1.1.5... You can put PodCasts in Playlists, both manual and smart ones. Also, rather than have your iPod sync all "Unplayed" set it to sync "All". Then set iTunes to keep "All Unplayed Episodes". The podcast will not deleted from iTunes until they are played all the way through. Yes, even if you sync it with one half played. The bookmark will even be transfered to iTunes so you can continue to listen to your computer. This works for me, because I do not want to "keep" any of the podcasts I listen to. For those that have pod casts you don't want to delete you can set at the podcast level "Do Not Allow Delete" and the podcasts will remain in iTunes. The problem with this is that they are still synced to your iPod. For those with newer iPods (I have a Gen4) you will see with the "dot" whether you listen to it or not... granted the dot goes away as soon as you start it. If you want to keep podcasts but not sync them to your iPod when you have Sync "ALL" episodes set your iPod to "Only Sync Checked Items" which applies to podcasts too. Then you can uncheck those that you want to keep, but not put on your iPod. While it's not perfect, I think you could do better than what you have now. I think as I said, the key is to Sync "ALL". I do agree that the following needs to be changed/fixed: 1. It stops d/ling them if you do listen to one... why? Fix this or make it setable. 2. Sometimes it doesn't delete a played episode, and I have to delete it manually. Someone here said if they delete a podcast, it just comes back. That doesn't happen to me normally. Usually when I do get old episodes that I had already downloaded it is because the feed changed in some way and iTunes thought they where new. BOb

Unregistered user Wednesday, May 23, 2007 1:20:00 PM

daaft writes: and I thought it was just me being picky - thank you Google! Has anyone found an alternative iPod podcast manager?

Unregistered user Monday, July 16, 2007 10:56:50 PM

Patrick Mooney (Ireland) writes: Totally agree with you here. I'm having issues with managing podcasts on my nano. My ipod has enough space, but I'd like to control what goes onto my nano. The current blanket selection is not working!

Eddie LopezEddie_Lopez Tuesday, July 17, 2007 1:37:44 AM

Bob-

Good points... I'm using the latest version of iTunes, and that might be part of the problem. I don't think we should have to "retest" all the features whenever a new version comes out of iTunes.

That said- I don't have a problem putting podcasts in playlists, my thoughts are that the playlist should have their own download frequency.

I'm trying your suggestion about iTunes- keep unplayed/iPod- sync all. If that works, then the iPod and iTunes have a different understanding of what "unplayed
means...and that surely should be addressed. So that when I say "all unplayed" it means the same thing across iTunes and iPod.

Eddie LopezEddie_Lopez Wednesday, July 18, 2007 3:14:36 PM

Bob-
...of course, the problem is that sometimes I don't have time or desire to hear a podcast and I want it sluff off to make room for the next/newest version of the podcast (which I may have time or desire to listen too) In your case, I would have to play it all the way through on my iPod before it goes away.

Again- the whole point is that different podcasts are treated (by me) differently. There are always exceptions to the "one size fits all" approach that iTunes uses.

I stand by my suggestion to Apple that they allow us to create folders that have rules for downloading, and we can put our subscriptions inside these folders and have them sync according to those rules.

Unregistered user Thursday, August 30, 2007 6:47:56 PM

Charles writes: I agree with all of this...whenever I use podcasts in itunes I feel like they just didn't finish writing that part of itunes. I mean, the changes required to do what I want to do are trivial and would result in a gigantic improvement in daily usability for me, the savvy user. One more for the list: the dynamic playlist that I've put together that plays the 100 most recent podcasts that I've got in itunes will pull the 100 most recent podcasts...but it won't allow me to SORT THEM BY DATE. So, I start with the oldest one, or alphabetically etc. I want to consume the most current news first and, if I have extra time that day, proceed on to backfill with less current material. So simple. So bloody simple. Oh yeah, and itunes keeps losing my entire list of podcasts. They just disappear. The old, previously downloaded files are still there...but the podcast entries aren't so they no longer get updated. I'm about to rebuild that list for the third time in a month. Congratulations Apple, you've made a product so simple that your average idiot can use it. Now, what about the rest of us?

Unregistered user Monday, September 10, 2007 3:09:08 PM

Matt writes: Excellent article! It's almost a year later and these are still my complaints exactly. So... still no solutions? *sigh*

Unregistered user Thursday, November 22, 2007 11:14:55 PM

Anonymous writes: Agree with absolutely everything said. Per-podcast - retention settings - transfer settings - etc. all necessary. The news show I only want to keep one or maybe two on the 'pod. Some others I want to keep the last 20... some I want to keep *all* for reference.... etc. etc.

Unregistered user Tuesday, November 27, 2007 6:23:40 AM

ryan Harvey writes: completely agree - is there a hack/workaround?

Unregistered user Thursday, February 7, 2008 9:58:52 PM

Johan writes: Eddie, great article, I totally agree! Per-podcast download settings or podcast "groups" with customizable download settings are really missed :( Another thing that I would love to see is the possibility to delete a downloaded podcast episode WITHOUT iTunes removing the episode "title" from the episodes list. It should instead go back to a "not downloaded yet" status (grey title) so I can download the same episode later, if I need to listen to it again. This is especially relevant for tech podcasts such as Chess Griffin's great Linux Reality podcast, where each episode deals with a different topic or piece of software. If iTunes, instead of removing the episode from the list, could revert to a "grey title" while still removing the physical file, I would be able to quickly look through old episodes and re-download them if needed. / Johan

Eddie LopezEddie_Lopez Friday, February 8, 2008 3:47:25 PM

Thanks Johan- glad you liked it.

Those are certainly valid points you bring up as well, it goes to back to the notion that podcasts are used in such unique ways that there should be a more user centered approach to managing them.

Unregistered user Tuesday, February 26, 2008 7:49:19 PM

Anonymous writes: These are my issues as well. I use my ipod almost exclusively for podcasts. I am at the point of looking for alternatives to itunes. Not for anything else but the weak podcast management capabilities. Does anyone know of alternatives that resolve these issues?

Unregistered user Thursday, July 17, 2008 3:55:48 PM

Stephen writes: I imagine you've all discovered that one of the big issues has been solved in newer versions of iTunes/iPod firmware (for some time now -- possibly over a year): In older versions of iTunes, you could sync: all 1 most recent 3 most recent ... all unplayed 1 most recent unplayed 3 most recent unplayed ... where "unplayed" meant no part of it had been played. In a subsequent release of iTunes, "unplayed" changed meanings entirely, with "new" being added to cover the old meaning of "unplayed", so now you can choose from: all 1 most recent 3 most recent ... all unplayed 1 most recent unplayed 3 most recent unplayed ... all new 1 most recent new 3 most recent new ... For me, "all unplayed" does what I need it to. If I have played /part/ of a podcast, it no longer removes it from my iPod upon sync, and it synchronises the bookmark position between iTunes and iPod whenever I sync, until I finish listening to the podcast, at which point it is played and gets removed from my iPod on the next sync. This is great, since I generally don't ever delete podcasts I subscribe to from my Mac, but I generally only want unplayed stuff on my iPod. Obviously, there are limitations. It doesn't provide the multitude of different ways of managing your podcasts that you would like, and it doesn't allow one to make some podcasts get removed if partially played, but for me that would bug me since if there's a 60 minute podcast that I want to listen to the first 30 minutes of, and I've listened to 15 minutes of it when I arrive home from work, that means I would be unable to sync or it would go away. I'm very happy now with never having to fear syncing (it sucked in older versions where I did have to fear that), and if I listen to the first 30m of a 60m podcast and am "done with it", I simply fast forward to the end to make iTunes/iPod consider it played. Perhaps it's not /ideal/, but it works ok for me! Regards, Stephen P.S. With one minor caveat: Since very recently getting the iTunes 7.7 upgrade, it's suddenly put a (random) bunch of my previously played (and thus removed) podcasts back on my iPod and traditional methods of playing them on the iPod and fast-forwarding to the end or doing the same in iTunes have not allowed me to force them to not be synced to my iPod. I have yet to figure out the problem, but this screams bug. The /features/ have been improved for a while -- I think maybe since iTunes 7.2. The bug in 7.7 is infuriating, but hopefully will get fixed.

Unregistered user Thursday, February 19, 2009 5:18:43 AM

Adam writes: No doubt. I found this trying to figure out how to sync some podcasts that by newest (news, etc) and some oldest (to listen to in order - for courses serials).

Unregistered user Monday, July 27, 2009 1:25:40 AM

Anonymous writes: There's a new software coming out soon that says you can carry your Apple iTunes profiles and settings around with you in your pocket. You can have your iTunes account, downloads and settings available to you on any PC with this software called i-Mtop. It’s going to be US$9.90, so is probably worth a go...

Unregistered user Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:30:02 PM

Anonymous writes: 2009 and I'm still frustrated by "One schedule to rule them all..." and many other things (including manually updating the iPod does not sync play counts, after giving up on automatic sync).

Eddie LopezEddie_Lopez Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:39:22 PM

Me too anon- it's gotten a little better over the years, but it seems to me like they should do a "from scratch" UI overhaul for podcasts.

Unregistered user Wednesday, August 24, 2011 3:53:59 AM

Alison writes: Its 2011 and unless I'm totally not getting something the problem is still there. I want to set up different sync criteria for different podcasts. Seems so simple

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