User Centered

bunq writes: Eddie: Well, Actually I've been thinking about a concept like this for quite a while. The Idea would not to try and map the DNS postal address to a physical location (heck, we end up in the same place as postal addresses are now). The idea is to map the address to a logical, common or guessable address that has only meaning to the DNS world. So you would map elopez@home.postaldns.com = Home address elopez@work.postaldns.com = Work address Then Home is always home... whether it's in Dubai or Kansas... you just know that "elopez" and "postaldns" go to the same person. As you can see there may be more than one elopez, so this is where the great thinkers come in... :) (c'est moi, oui). I've written a paper on this subject (6 years ago now) so if you're truly interested on how something like this will work, then just contact me. Your good friend's friend, NJ

So... you're saying I write on my envelope: "elopez@home.postaldns.com"? Then the post office translates that to my physical address and is off and running?

Yeah- that was my first thought as well. But I alluded (poorly) to this in my post when I mentioned "infrastructure." I guess the most difficult place would probably be in web-forms, but then again, they'd be the most likely to get updated first. But I can't imagine the amount of "things" in the world that are based on physical address- forms, databases, etc etc... while I totally agree with what you're saying, I think what I was getting at is a way to kludge or fake the system... build a bridge between what you're saying and what we have today.

Trying a "turn key" to switch to an email address just would be too large an undertaking- although I may be wrong, again- I can't wrap my brain about the number of possible processes, procedures and data sources that rely and expect a physical address of some sort.

Of course I'd be interested in what you've written. Please, do share.

-Eddie

That's also why I scratched out the "thinking about" part at the beginning of the post- I didn't really put a lot of thought into how- I just knew that going from our physical address system to a single piece of information would probably be a daunting task... so I just said I was bothered by it and hoped someone like you'd comment on it

bunq writes: True, we are using a different postal system than the one proposed, but is China, London, or even our friends to the north and south Canada and Mexico using the same system. Yet somehow I can send a package to my favorite country Spain and it gets there. I'm not sure a kludge is necessary; it's more of public acceptance. (This may be off topic) NJ P.S. as food for thought... why do you think your postal mail has a barcode printed at the bottom of the address when you receive the mail? NJ

bunq writes: I know this is a US-Centric post... but I used the other countries to elude that our system can accept other postal "signatures" and pass them on. Instead of passing this new "signature" on, we would be adding it to our system. In parallel... and of course who says that this has to become one monolithic undertaking of the USPS??? NJ

I'm not saying that at all. In fact, I think the USPS wouldn't have it all that bad- I assumed (as you just expressed) that there is some of this going on already- I read about the barcode before, but that slipped my mind. I like this moving forward in parallel with additional information... Again- I'm thinking about "backwards compatability" I think more than anything.

I'm talking more about everyone else in the world. The IRS has to print new forms. Every webpage that's floating out there online needs to have the forms changed and updated. All the Tax software that H&R Block uses- the software on the greasy plastic covered computer at the local Jiffy Lube... that stuff. You can't just walk in there and tell them you're address is "eddielopez@home.postaldsn.com" -at least not without replacing the existing email address field and allowing blank for the address. But now you've lost the email address.

I think we're saying the same thing- I'm just saying that I believe everyone else in the world is too damn lazy You're right-it is about public acceptance. But just think about all the web-app and software applications that have that "you must enter a street address..." message. I guess that's my first big stumbling block here. I'm totally on board with what you're saying- and well.. I think the public *would* accept this, but would they actually *do* it is the problem.

"ah hell, this thing is asking for my my street address and it won't let me put in a '@' character... just give me your street address and let the post office figure it out."

bunq writes: Sure we are talking about the same thing ... which has gotten off of the usability topic (well sort of). I think you're thinking of the problem from the wrong way. Adding a line to a web form or even a tax from that allows for you to add use a postaldns.com address instead of a "regular" postal address is the least of our worries (just think how many lines of tax code are added and deleted each year!!!) That stuff will come at it's natural progression. As the technology catches on, they will use it (I think of the "captcha" technology that's being used now... what Yahoo started that 2 years ago... and now it's like the de-facto standard to filling forms for fraud protection... so adding things to forms and new technologies are not the questions you need to ask. (even though those deal more with usability). As far as usability is concerned, to me, this would be a case of designers and developers integrating new technology to the mainstream applications and uses.

Side tangent before I respond- I'm kind of thinking about how we are bridging old/new with VOIP. LIke- for instance, we allow users to choose area codes to allow people (regardless of where you are) to have a "local number." This is kind of the mindset I have about all this postal stuff- way different, but kinda related:

Ok- I again I agree with all that. Nothing different in my mind- The difference is the mindset of the consumer- the whole point of all this is to allow users a single address to give out to everyone that they only have to update in one spot.

You captcha analogy is not quite right because we go to a website with the mindset that the website there has it's own set of creditials that's different every other site.... There's not universal, turn key captcha that allows us access to all our sites. We do have one universal street address though that is the same now matter what. Some people have that data stored in databases to prove identity (what's your mothers maiden name?, what's your zip code...). My entire point is: "Unless it's a turn key solution, it won't ever catch on... so what's the point?" It won't catch on because ever user that's adopting this on the bleeding edge will have to still update all those old addresses every time he moves and then still wait for years until every computer, database, and written form is updated with the new "email like" address.... I think this is unwinnable, and not very likely....

But how about this then- we use *both* of our ideas... this will allow a turn key "bridge" solution that I'm worried about *AND* allow everyone else to grow into your solution:

Create an email like system that is composed (initially) of a lengthy address that would map one-to-one to our existing street addresses... something like:
eddie.lopez@99999-9999 that uniquely identifies you and conforms to a zip code layout, plus unique id... or maybe you can add that with another Id like:
eddie.lopez@anycity.99999

Then, when you go to flowers.com or get an envelope, it's made out to:
Eddie Lopez
123 Main St
Anycity, MN 99999

The post office (DNS lookup) sees the "99999" or whatever zipcode keyword they use and then matches the city and username or whatever.. and translates that to your *REAL* address.

But! Next time you go to flowers.com and order, you see they have a new field there:
DNS Address:

Aha! now you can just enter eddie.lopez@anycity.99999 and call it good.
****************************************************
EDIT/UPDATE
ie- I'm finally seeing the light here...walk me the rest of the way through the woods...

Assume/initialize the "fake" address I'm talking about is your current street address.your DNS (whatever format you'd like) will just map to it. When you move- the local bank still has the old address on file, but mail sent to it will "redirect" to the new one automagically just like they forward mail today until such time as they implement a "DNS mailing address" into their banking software. My new say... gas company, they also don't have this new updated software either- so when I sign up for them- I give them my old address? Keep handing that out until you get everyone on the same page?

However- You should still be able to choose a city/zip/street of your choosing- just like VOIP.

I guess I just don't understand what you're proposing to do about me not having to remember to update all my billers with my new address everytime I move.

Tell me how you propose my bank will get ahold of me when I move, and assume they are a small credit union or something...some operation that has not yet adopted this new DNS lookup.

If I sign up for a new DNS email address...I call all my billers, friends, alumni schools, and relatives, etc... and tell them all my new DNS address is "eddie.lopez@virtualaddress.com" or something- and say only 25 percent of them say: "ok- got it, your account has been updated" and the other 75 percent say "your who and the what now?"

I just update my address with them in parallel until everyone catches on to this concept?

Who says VOIP phone numbers have to be seven digits with an area code? Are we looking at that the wrong way too?

another thought on captchas- I also noted that webforms were the first thing I thought as being a pain in the neck to adopt (most strict in terms of validating information) but also probably the first adopters of this kind of idea...

They'd adopt the quickest of any of these solutions, it's just adding a extra form element and DB field and validation changing all the way around- Although certainly, just getting standardized form validation on web sites using existing postal addresses is a daunting, inconsitent,user experience nightmare even with our long standing postal rules, (but I will ignore that point since your proposed method would bring standardization to the system- i bring it up only to illustrate the adoption point)

I'm just thinking about everything else in the world. All the companies out there that bought software from companies that are out of business now, or they don't have the means to update the software that has this *one* requirement for a zipcode to be entered every single time. I maintain my stance they just plain will NOT bother with it. Heck you can't even buy something from radio shack without having to give an address. We circumvent this now by putting dummy information in... a fake address.

And I guess, that's all I'm really proposing if you really take a look at it (circumventing the system)

bunq writes: You are seeing the light with the VoIP and "do we really need seven digits?" question... which was really the question that I pondered so many years ago. Then was not the time for adoption (the technology was not a critical mass stage --we are closer now, and I think the jump could be made. Of course this is not dependent on one factor, but I think the stars are starting to align) As for DNS being an CS guy you can appreciate the tech-speak. Remember that DNS is run on thirteen (13) Root Servers. Yes that's thirteen servers that basically manage some umpteen-million domain names... not just .com, .net and the common ones... but the .fr's and .tk's that are out there. So in changing the location of where your DNS name points to a servers IP address ultimately ends up on one of those thirteen within hours... and then is propagated to every name sever out there. If the system is designed correctly ... a postal mail piece could be re-routed because the data is housed in a central (relatively speaking) location. Also remember you can have eddielopez@home.postaldns.com and eddielopez@summerhome.postaldns.com, thus keeping a link to the old address while providing a link to the new address. If we were to bridge the two ideas and have a eddielopez@anycity.9999.com then you are losing the benefits of the system. We shouldn't know what city you are in, We shouldn't care where you are located. What happens when you move? If you change office locations within HP (say, move from San Francisco to Minneapolis) Does it matter where your email goes... no. We expect for it to follow you. As a usability issue (and this is a perfect example) we simply write the eddielopez@home.postaldns.com on an envelope and drop it in the mail box. There would be no "Return Address Requested" comments needed on the envelope because you would always have the latest. And there is no reason that we have to rid ourselves of "old world" postal addresses. We can keep them in for legacy applications (and heck they really never have to leave). But then think about the phone system... even until the 60's and 70's there were still manual switchboards and you had to dial a special line to "call long distance". So not even thinking about the introduction of digital switching, touch tones and the ubiquity of cell phones within the last 30 years. It may take time, but as far as usability and convenience "postaldns.com" would be the way to go. NJ

By "Anycity" I mean literally, the string: "AnyCity" not a specific city-ie "Rochester"

I realize it doesn't matter at all what that is. It could be "summerhome" or "anycity"... I guess at this point then, it's best if you describe your prevously mentioned idea for uniquness from the other "eddie.lopez@home.postaldns.com" that will be running around...because that's more or less what I was getting at with the "anycity" part. Anycity could be literally anything you wanted to identify uniqueness. I chose "AnyCity" because it's likely that since we're talking about "mailing addresses" it would seem natural and somewhat intuitive to associate that to the city (we already do this for .fr, .nz, etc for country)- and a good number of people will *want* to use the city... as it's likely they may never move and always *want* to have that so visually people will know the city they live in! (hey, this guy gave me a business card, but I have no idea if he's on the next street, or the next state?). So while not necessary at all- I figured it was the easiest and probably more likely than say.. "home.postaldns.com" Those of use that move around alot can certainly choose something more in tune with what they wanted.. but certainly *some* kind of standardization would have be created so we have some idea of where people are? Other wise you'd then have to tell everyone seperately!

So while you're certainly correct- those that move around don't want to have to create new address with the new city in it (that defeats the purpose), you can have life long settlers still have something "familiar" to them and everyone else (if they want!)- or those that are moving around a bit (military folks!) can choose something like "eddie.lopez@af.postaldns.com" or something instead of the city. Or maybe I want to keep affilation with my hometown in the same way VOIP allows us to keep whatever area code we want.

Finally- I proposed that method above of using the city as a (admittedly poorly thought out...) backward compatibility measure... like something in the hopes that even if my parents have never even heard of this postaldns thing, they never signed up or created their own account, the post office will take care of it for me if just sent my fathers day card to:
mom_dad@123.lake_street.folsom.ca.95630

So the tech savvy, bleading edge, progressives of the world who know all the rules (like replace " " with "_") can allow others less so to "see it in action" as it applies to their own legacy address.... ("honey, look at how Eddie addressed this- we can do that?" to which I'd reply "sure! and you can pick something easier just like your email address!")

...analagous to sending an email to an IP address email. Of course, they could then log on to postaldns.com and pick a new name to map that real address, and have it populate through the servers in the future to whatever they'd like- hometown or otherwise.

No- that's not a real address.. But I did used to live in Folsom CA.

Yes- I do realize that you still need to further "uniquify" even if you choose to use a city name.

If we do keep the old system around, then what's the point? My whole point of this post was to not have to keep sending address updates to my billers, friends and family every time I move.

My kludge would have you update your address one time only.. you tell them my new city is "anycity" and my new zipcode is "99999" until you update your system to read my postaldns.com address.

Then when the biller sends to that zipcode, the postaldns server remaps it to my correct, current address. Kludge? Of course. It allows the early adopters to mingle easily with everyone else with no problems (other than having to explain what "anycity," or whatever you choose, means)

Ah! Here's what I want to say: In a nutshell, I'd like existing postal address to act in the same way as an IP address under the covers.

Then you can DNS map anything you want to it. And subsequently, we already have an entire world based on addressing directly to this "IP address" who can use legacy methods, the DNS mapping.

The concept might be foreign only because nobody can remember an IP address. But since we *do* remember postal addresses, we can send packages either by using this DNS mapped "home.postaldns.com" or we can do a direct address by doing the "123.main_street.folsom.ca.95630"

Does that make any more sense?

bunq writes: Well, the 123.main_street.folsom.ca.95630 is an interesting way of looking at it. But you have my thoughts exactly when you say that the postaldns.com address will lay on top of the legacy postal method. So the two can exist side-by-side it's up to the person doing the mailing to choose the method. as for the mapping of the address to a Domain Name like address: 123.main_street.folsom.ca.95630 I think that will a significant AI effort on the part to map all possible combinations. I know that some of this work has been done (example google maps) but I'm not sure if you would gain anything from it. because you would be requiring some one to massage data into a strict format, which as been predefined loosely. What I'm saying is that it would take about 2-generations for people to start to correctly use the 123.main_... Domain Name notation correctly because you can currently write 123 main street Folsom, CA 95630 123 Main St. Folsom, CA 95630 USA I know those seem like little changes but you know as well as I do, computers a very literal beings and they don't quite jump to conclusions like humans do. So sometimes programming even the smallest change can be a huge problem. So then, throw in an apartment suite, or other number and the inconstancies rise. Add a North, East, South, West and even more variations. Throw in a foreign word with an accent even more programming. Can we use this internationally? plaza de las cortes.7. 28014.madrid.spain (Will this work? the number and the street name are swapped --is this a problem? Side Note: I think we can safely use spaces in the Domain Name, this is *not* a technical impossibility and could be used to help clarify Domain Names.) I really don't see it working as well, but then again google has a pretty good interface to mapping from an address, so it can be done on some-level, I just don't know if it can be done high enough so that you don't have to return the mail and say... eh, try again we couldn't understand what you meant. Or have humans decrypt a format that was meant for computers, to put it on the right path. I'm just not sure if the current (and next/upcoming) generation will "get it" on how to present the Postal Domain Name correctly. But they have a firm grasp on how to construct Email address and I think that: home.postaldns.com will have no problem being re-created by the mainstream masses. I guess the questions remaining are; will it work internationally? Can humans decrypt this? NJ

bunq writes: But I must say that I think we are on the same page, it's just wether you can map a postal address to one that "looks" like a postal address, but is a domain name. Correct?

Correct I agree- the street, st. and str. would really throw this all for a loop.

Alok Dube writes: Interesting, to me to the recursion of a "where" and a "who" does not make sense. If I move from A to B , in no way am I not the same person tagged back to my permamnet address/my postal address. Perhaps a way to look at it is: a. ME = me.myhome_address being the way all devices identify me b. ME.myoffice_address being the tag put when i send out emails from office but record in DNS should say a CNAME me.myhome_address CNAME ME.myoffice_address and when I go home it should become: ME.myoffice_address CNAME me.myhome_address In other words to make it more logical a. ME is me.myhome_address when i walk into office it should be b. me.myhome_address CNAME me.myhome_address.myoffice_address or if guys in office call me "Bill" coz they dont like William, it is: me.myhome_address CNAME me.myhome_address.myoffice_address me.myhome_address CNAME alias.myoffice_address and now when I go home it becomes: me.myhome_address.myoffice_address CNAME me.myhome_address alias.myoffice_address CNAME me.myhome_address just the CNAME changes to reflect where I am should suffice. When there is no CNAME entry, what the heck, it means I am at home anyways ;-) Works across for mobility too. Telephone directories always tie to an address. me.myhome_address CNAME me.myhome_address.the_tower_sending_the_signal_address and at any given point of time, searching for me.myhome_address is a good way to find me. And if you like being called "HOTMALE" at work you could always pay and get HOTMALE.my_office_address CNAME me.myhome_address

Anonymous writes: St. could be "street", just as the postal dept wants it You wanna run a query, simply type St*

banks et al writes: Banks have to be notified, unless you have a fascinating bank which does not care for you to maintain some balance/have some identity proof/photgraph they can use to chase you down. It works the same way even now, does it not? Think about simplicity, playing cops and robbers is not the internet's/system's job. People are paid to do that full time.

Alok Dube writes: regarding the concept of multiple address, i kinda got confused Note that a "house" address is always the same with the postal dept. So if a bldg is newly constructed, no matter what, the house is always Floor Bldg name Street city country ZIP and so on. The only variable that has to be registered is the "name" of the person who lives there. So as of date, the surveyers maps/the city town already has a "label" for the individual house. All that needs to be done in the database is to fill in the "name" field. Elaborating on the CNAME concept, So if the database says "your permanent address is you.your_old_address", you could for a while, till you register your new address still be caught by the database be, you.your_old_address.your_new_address, and ofcourse the fact that you want to keep in touch with people using phones etc, is a good way to trace you down. so simply put, when you move, you will have to notify a "ffwd to address" more like you.your_old_address CNAME you.your_old_address.your_new_address till you get to your new address registerd and the old entry is knocked off. Hassle free yes, folks who know your old address can chase you, yes (for a year or two atleast) unless you want to play Thomas Crown and leave here tomorrow.

Anonymous writes: The good part is that this also lets the "city planner" decide the addressing mechanism. As far as I can tell, in India for example, it always is Flat # / Building name or block number/ Complex name/street name city country and so on All they need to do, is put down the format below every building. And if I do not know your exact postal address, but I know you live somewhere in X,y,Z but not the exact formt, I can always do a whois query back to the database like Your name * x* y*z, see what it matches and then choose the right one, a lot of what I do today when I refer to the telephone directory for the postal address if I know a number.

Originally posted by banks et al writes:

Banks have to be notified, unless you have a fascinating bank which does not care for you to maintain some balance/have some identity proof/photgraph they can use to chase you down. It works the same way even now, does it not?
Think about simplicity, playing cops and robbers is not the internet's/system's job. People are paid to do that full time.

I'm not advocating hiding the address. I of course, anyone should be able to ask the "DNS server" for the real street address and recieve it.

It's not about privacy or hiding, in fact, quite the opposite. It's about easily allowing anyone to get your new address. If a bank wants to verify you address, they look it up.

And besides, as you might be able to tell from my comments, I'd still like to keep the current addressing system as well.

Anonymous writes: what gets to me is why there are so many records in DNS, like LOC SRV blah blah. MX may make sense, we may need a postal box (you could eliminate that if you can keep your machines on 24 hours), but the only one i see feasable are CNAME/alias. The A records ofcourse become redundant with the concept of eliminating the recursion of who-->where

Forget the DNS guys. This is probably the most dangerous idea I've heard in a while. The spamming possibilities are endless. The way to digitize postal mail is to take the USPS and digitize the darn mail. There's an interesting article about a service that puts mail online. http://www.ccnmag.com/news.php?id=4150
I think you can see your mail online.
I checked out their service http://www.remotecontrolmail.com kinda long name. But something like this is the future. google, efax, my cell, my email, and my postal mail...on the go.
If anyone's used this service or know someone who has, let me know. I'm curious.

melanieA-

Interesting idea, thanks for the link. I'd love to hear more about it myself.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that bunq isn't going to like it very much.

I don't see how it's going to induce more "spam" than now. The biggest reason is- spammers would be physically sending something- which means, stamps and shipping costs, which will drastically cut back the spam.

The other...people will treat it differently than an email address I'd imagine. The reason we get so much spam now is that we are so cavalier about tossing our email address around to register for every single website we run across. Maybe you have a small point in that since it's "easier" to type into a webpage people will be more prone to give it out, but if I see a website say "in order to register for this site, please enter your mailing address..." I would not proceed. There's not any reason to dish that address out to anyone unless your having something shipped to you. So- yes, spam would be issue, but not necessarily any more than junk mail is today I would imagine. I bet some people coule be more easily tricked into accidently giving it out, but still, I don't think it would be nearly the problem we have with email.

Still, that's an interesting concept. Similar to when you can see the checks you mail to your bank online. I'd be interested to know if all mail get opened and scanned as it's recieved?

You still also need time sensetive mail to go to your house, in addition to you netflix movies.

Further- How about when you sign up to have something shipped to you like flowers- you have those sent to your real address, not the RCM one right? (this is a bad example, here because most differentiate shipping from billing addresses, but the point is the same...)
Well,now the flower company has your real address and sends all the junk mail to you anyway- bypassing the RCM. They address this in the faq- but magazines that ship to your address will surely have junk mail and bills sent to that address right? Your utility company uses your address to determine billing right? You can't sign up to have your services turned on in Beaverton Oregon?

...just some thoughts in my head- I haven't thought those all through. Feel free to haggle me out. Seems like there's just *too many* exceptions that would make this an ideal solution.

Alok writes: MelaineA, another good thing is that you will now "know" who sent you the spam! remember the sender will have an "address" which is bound to "him alone", no "dial up multiplexed address". Does give you an advantage, does it not? you could always say "no source address, do not accept incoming message" on your settings, and rest assured that all email that comes is genuine/correctly sourced.

mail spam? writes: Well look at it this way Present day email does: my mail client-->my mail server (which is my post office)--->P2P to your post office--> your mail server Which ofcourse could be reduced to my mail client-->your mail client if needed. in either case the mail has to come via my mail server to your mail server, both of which have addresses and can be traced in the transaction, or via my mail client to your mail client, which makes it relatively simple anyways.

kingsley writes: i need to ship to postal address

Anonymous writes: depends what you need to ship? if it is text/drawing/something which can be made digital, scan it (i use my USB camera actively as a scanner) :) else yeah you cannot eliminate the post man, but you can take the load off the same.

Anonymous writes: one could look at the huge city wide conveyor belt where one just pops a box and automated robots/scanners simply pass things along the belt to move it from one place to the other. again "i think i'll buy me a lear jet" may not be exactly shipped this way, but smaller goods could be.

Cameron Powell writes: It's always a pleasure to be witness to thoughtful people thinking something out. As one of the founders of Remote Control Mail, I'd like to try to illuminate a few things about real metrics in online postal mail, and also ask for your feedback. To Eddie's points: >>I'd be interested to know if all mail get opened and scanned as it's recieved? The answer is no. We scan the envelope. Then you decide what should happen next. You will not be surprised to hear that half the mail is "deleted" (shredded or recycled) on sight. Of the other half, a great deal is scanned rather than shipped, and some mail is both scanned and then shipped. >>You still also need time sensetive mail to go to your house, in addition to you netflix movies. I'd say this one is close. Netflix goes to your house, yes. But most of our customers send time-sensitive mail like bills and notifications to their Remote Control Mail account -- if it's really time-sensitive, and you travel at all, you want to be able to get it *without* calling the neighbors... You are all correct in noting that having an RCM account means never having to change your address again (unlike even a p.o. box, which becomes obsolete if you move away). Of course, the real benefit of never changing your address again will kick in when we are able to offer addresses in cities around the country and have our own zip code with the post office. That means that regardless of whether Auntie Em writes you in Trenton, New Jersey or Oakland, California, all she needs to know is the RCM# (which we pay attention to) and the zip code (which the postal service pays attention to). As for unwanted mail (a broader category than "junk" mail, because a lot of mail is not unsolicited but is still not wanted on the day it arrives), our service does not presently reduce the amount, but it does reduce the time spent on it, and the physical mess in your living or working space, while increasing the recycling of a paper category that currently has an abominable 17% recycling rate. Forests of trees fall every day because we throw junk mail away. We recycle over 60% of mail. Upcoming features are what I think will be most interesting. One is a lot like a spam filter, but, like automatic rules in Outlook, it can manage *all* kinds of mail, wanted or no, without your even looking at it. Users will be able to have defined mail treated the same way every time. For example, without your having to ask us or even wait, certain bills will always be opened and scanned (and others shredded!), certain mail will always be forwarded unopened, and certain mail will always be archived in our secure warehouse. In the next feature release, you won't even *get* unwanted mail sent to you, whether at home or through Remote Control Mail. We'll provide customers with a way to get off selected mailing lists, so that you don't need to receive selected types -- or any -- unsolicited mail ever again. (You can get off ALL mailing lists today, but it's all-or-nothing; you can't stay on electronics lists or Victoria Secret, etc., so it's a blunt instrument). I'd love to hear feature feedback from such a well-informed and tech-savvy group. Best wishes, Cameron Powell VP Business Development Document Command Makers of the long-winded http://www.RemoteControlMail.com

Cameron-

Thanks for shedding some light. Some follow up thoughts and questions:

1) I ask RCM to open my mail for me. Then I want to forward it. Do you put it in another envelope and forward it? If so, if I want multiple things forwarded to me at once, do you ship them at the same time?

2) A good chuck of my mail that I recieve as "spam" or "junk mail" just comes directly to my address addressed to John Doe or resident. Weekly flyers from the grocery store, etc, all completely bypassing my name and address. I still have to live with all that.

3) What about bills/services that are tied to your address like utilities/gas/electric? Do most companies have different addresses for billing than they do for service? I imagine that's not too much of a problem, but I could potentially see confusion there.

But I do see a strong need for your service in the "unwanted mail" category... that is, not unsolicited, but still not wanted. Like promotions from my bank. I want them to send me stuff, just not that. Interesting

Anonymous writes: It would be easier to simply do a: I need to contact this guy somewhere in this city but i dont know what is his unique identifier so i do a whois on my phone/email/address book like: name=thisguy place=cityiknow sex=male and everything else is unknown 3 entries show up I look at all the entries and choose one and say "ok its him" from all the ones i see That should be all that is there to it the rest should ideally be done peer to peer, or me-->mailbox-->his mail client thats not just for email, it should work for everything the guy does Cam to cam talk you name it, every thing on the net should be a who->where->who model, and the system should just log It also helps guys like me who are half unix and half windows due to a sysadmin background ..let the user debug his own bits from his OS!! :)

Anonymous writes: Have seen numerous proposals talking about using email id as the unique demux of a user.. Not helping unless you are willing to get rid of the web interface around it.

Alok writes: there is an SPF proposal floating around based on the comments I see above. Even MSN's own email hotmail gives me as much spam as it did before! as I see it, duh! I can log into any web site and create as many accounts as I need as of date, none of them cross checks it. If caller id became DNS then DNS should be what carries the $who,$where info.